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Author Topic: The Painted Man / The Warded Man  (Read 35793 times)

Offline Fellshot

Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #90 on: August 31, 2012, 05:00:01 AM »
Finished the book... and wished it was just three short stories instead.

They all started off okay but the further they went along the more they became mired in trying to weave those three very disparate storylines into each other. I'm also left with the feeling that some parts of the world building fell on it's face, because if the tendency is for villages to stay isolated and not have a lot of contact with their neighbors, then I would think that there would be some sort of really active apprenticing system in place to prevent things like inbreeding.

The amount of rape that was casually dismissed by Arlen and by Leesha was disturbing. Guys, for us ladies that is not a fantasy and I wish that in fantasy stories you would stop treating it like something that only happens occasionally and is easily dismissed or only happens in bad places or because she was wearing that dress or because she had boobs. IS THIS SO MUCH TO ASK?  >:(

For that matter can we please end the "Marriage and/or children means women have to stop being important" trope in fantasy stories? It's depressing and frustrating. Children are not the be all end all of any lady's life. And if there are so few people then every able bodied person regardless of gender should be doing all the things that able bodied people can do.

*sigh*

The premise was interesting as I happen to like lost/found technology tropes, but the characters were dealbreakers. Seriously, no one had tried putting a ward on a pointed stick in three centuries? >_<  There isn't enough headdesking to make it better.

Offline Idlewilder

Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #91 on: August 31, 2012, 08:13:02 AM »

The premise was interesting as I happen to like lost/found technology tropes, but the characters were dealbreakers. Seriously, no one had tried putting a ward on a pointed stick in three centuries? >_<  There isn't enough headdesking to make it better.

I may be wrong - so don't shoot me - but wasn't it more that the wards on the "pointed stick" were battle-wards which had been lost for centuries?
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Offline pornokitsch

Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #92 on: August 31, 2012, 01:56:40 PM »
For that matter can we please end the "Marriage and/or children means women have to stop being important" trope in fantasy stories? It's depressing and frustrating. Children are not the be all end all of any lady's life. And if there are so few people then every able bodied person regardless of gender should be doing all the things that able bodied people can do.
ropes, but the characters were dealbreakers. Seriously, no one had tried putting a ward on a pointed stick in three centuries? >_<  There isn't enough headdesking to make it better.

Desert Spear also uses the word "womb" a lot, which I found really disconcerting.

Offline Fellshot

Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #93 on: September 01, 2012, 12:17:39 AM »
Idlewilder, it seemed like everyone had some wards that amounted to a "forbidding" or blocking effect. It doesn't seem like a huge leap to make a protective suit with them. Or a tank. :P

It pissed me off that holding women in high esteem because they make babies didn't seem to translate into women being able to inherit, or holding positions of political power, or being innkeepers, or Messengers, or Warders or any other profession other than womb with legs. Admittedly there was one named jongelur, but I'm not entirely sure that wasn't a typo, because there's also mention that a guy had an alto voice... something that doesn't happen unless said guy is missing a few bits of plumbing.

I'm glad you mentioned that word overuse Pornokitsch, I will never read the Desert Spear. Too much of that will encourage me to give it to my chinchilla as a shredding toy. :P

Offline Captain_Newtype

Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #94 on: September 03, 2012, 12:31:57 AM »

I was really enjoying The Painted Man. Really enjoying it until the 'And then she was raped' moment which occurred out of no-where and between chapters. It just felt shoe-horned in and after that, the novel really went of the window for me from then on. I'm torn between reading the sequel simply because the last hundred pages of this book was so, so bad.

That, and I read his Red Sonja one-shot comic, which might be the very definition of 'Plot, what plot?'
I'd like to say I'm a writer, but that would occasionally require product. As it stands, I'm just a dreamer with a big mouth and poor time management.

Not really a Captain, I bought the rank used off eBay.

Offline Nighteyes

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Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #95 on: January 22, 2013, 07:43:06 PM »
Bumpity as a few people have been discussing these books recently and some fascinating discussion here.
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Offline shep5377

Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #96 on: January 22, 2013, 08:44:47 PM »
Bumpity as a few people have been discussing these books recently and some fascinating discussion here.

Thanks for bumping it hound, I've read it through and agree with a lot of the comments from both sides. I'm only 25% of the way through Desert Spear so can't comment on that yet.

Offline AlmightyZael

Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #97 on: January 22, 2013, 09:52:09 PM »
Idlewilder, it seemed like everyone had some wards that amounted to a "forbidding" or blocking effect. It doesn't seem like a huge leap to make a protective suit with them. Or a tank. :P

It's all good to say stuff like that, but when you're cut off from everyone because traveling can be lethal, and the only places that can do anything about that kind of technology aren't bothered because they are safe behind city walls, it's a bit harder to implement than you seem to suggest  ;D I think the point was to show a clear difference between what the wards could and couldn't do - especially since every force has an equal and opposite force.
I think hitting a demon with a warded stick would either break the stick or send the person flying since the demon could probably take the brunt of the force as they're much stronger than humans.
It's like saying 'hey, look at all this snow, if only we can melt it somehow' - it's not a huge jump to get to underfloor heating for the entire country, which is an equally insane venture to undertake.

I think I sound like an ass on that last part - I'm not trying to offend you, Fellshot, just point out where I think the holes in the series are at least partially explainable  :)
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Offline Fellshot

Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #98 on: January 23, 2013, 07:01:42 AM »
Idlewilder, it seemed like everyone had some wards that amounted to a "forbidding" or blocking effect. It doesn't seem like a huge leap to make a protective suit with them. Or a tank. :P

It's all good to say stuff like that, but when you're cut off from everyone because traveling can be lethal, and the only places that can do anything about that kind of technology aren't bothered because they are safe behind city walls, it's a bit harder to implement than you seem to suggest  ;D I think the point was to show a clear difference between what the wards could and couldn't do - especially since every force has an equal and opposite force.I think hitting a demon with a warded stick would either break the stick or send the person flying since the demon could probably take the brunt of the force as they're much stronger than humans.

I think you are trying to allude to Newton's Third law about equal and opposite reactions. It's a slightly different thing from force physics. Humans are also nothing if not ingenious about finding ways to kill things. If bludgeoning doesn't work maybe something pointy will. And so on and so forth.

Walled cities are not autonomous entities and never have been. The food for a walled city has to come from somewhere. The raw materials for industry in a walled city have to come from somewhere. Trade usually dictates travel. If a good is valuable people will find ways to bring it to market. regardless of how hazardous the passage is. There are sections of the Silk road that went through extremely dry desert, high mountains and dense jungle full of tigers willing to eat people. There are many trade outposts on the edge of the Sahara and people have been finding their way through it for a very long time. Before certain canals were built, ships sailed through some of the roughest seas on the planet to move valuable trade items most of the way around the world. The number of naturally occurring obstacles that stop trade are very, very few.

The demons seem easy by comparison. All you have to do is set a good perimeter fence at night and have a few guards in case of bandits. Just like any other trader in the history of people selling stuff to other people over long distances.

Quote
It's like saying 'hey, look at all this snow, if only we can melt it somehow' - it's not a huge jump to get to underfloor heating for the entire country, which is an equally insane venture to undertake.

I think I sound like an ass on that last part - I'm not trying to offend you, Fellshot, just point out where I think the holes in the series are at least partially explainable  :)

Underfloor heating for an entire country is silly, but what about underfloor heating for one's house? Or a portable heating system for travel? You don't have to melt all the snow all the time, you just have to keep where you live warm when it snows.

It's more that I am less than impressed by the vast underestimation of how people get things done in the face of known hazards with known solutions to them.

Offline AlmightyZael

Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #99 on: January 23, 2013, 02:16:11 PM »
That's actually a good point - I don't remember it mentioning whether there was trade for food from the hamlets and what not. Maybe it's more a middle-soft fantasy world?

(As in, realistic to an extent, not realistic as in Rothfuss realistic, which I would consider hard fantasy)
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Offline shep5377

Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #100 on: January 23, 2013, 04:41:24 PM »
Also Zeal, I don't think it is 'equal and opposite' reactions. IIRC several times when a demon strikes the wards they are thrown back but the shield holder isn't. I think the magic absorbs it.

Offline shep5377

Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #101 on: January 23, 2013, 04:46:14 PM »
My main gripe was how easily Arlen rediscovered the offensive wards. You're telling me no one else went and checked the ruins and lifted the lid of a coffin? There was no trial or hardship to find it, keep it and survive maybe, but not find it.

Offline AlmightyZael

Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #102 on: January 23, 2013, 06:13:05 PM »
Also Zeal, I don't think it is 'equal and opposite' reactions. IIRC several times when a demon strikes the wards they are thrown back but the shield holder isn't. I think the magic absorbs it.

I didn't mean about the stationary wards.
I meant that if you stuck the regular defensive wards onto a club or a spear, then that would be what would cause the person to receive the equal and opposite reaction thing - I was trying to point out that it's really only now that the offensive wards have been discovered that the people can really fight back, as opposed to the idea that 'nobody thought of sticking wards on weapons before' :)

But I think I agree about it being easy to find. Though, I think I remember it mentioning that he purposely hung around Anoch Sun for months and was looking there for a good while before finally digging out one of the chambers...
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Offline shep5377

Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #103 on: January 23, 2013, 06:28:58 PM »
Also Zeal, I don't think it is 'equal and opposite' reactions. IIRC several times when a demon strikes the wards they are thrown back but the shield holder isn't. I think the magic absorbs it.

I didn't mean about the stationary wards.
I meant that if you stuck the regular defensive wards onto a club or a spear, then that would be what would cause the person to receive the equal and opposite reaction thing - I was trying to point out that it's really only now that the offensive wards have been discovered that the people can really fight back, as opposed to the idea that 'nobody thought of sticking wards on weapons before' :)

But I think I agree about it being easy to find. Though, I think I remember it mentioning that he purposely hung around Anoch Sun for months and was looking there for a good while before finally digging out one of the chambers...

You're probably right about him hanging around for ages, but when he talks with Ragen (sp?) as a kid they go on and on about messengers wanting to find these offensive wards, so noone would have made that trip?

Offline AlmightyZael

Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #104 on: January 23, 2013, 10:55:37 PM »
Also Zeal, I don't think it is 'equal and opposite' reactions. IIRC several times when a demon strikes the wards they are thrown back but the shield holder isn't. I think the magic absorbs it.

I didn't mean about the stationary wards.
I meant that if you stuck the regular defensive wards onto a club or a spear, then that would be what would cause the person to receive the equal and opposite reaction thing - I was trying to point out that it's really only now that the offensive wards have been discovered that the people can really fight back, as opposed to the idea that 'nobody thought of sticking wards on weapons before' :)

But I think I agree about it being easy to find. Though, I think I remember it mentioning that he purposely hung around Anoch Sun for months and was looking there for a good while before finally digging out one of the chambers...

You're probably right about him hanging around for ages, but when he talks with Ragen (sp?) as a kid they go on and on about messengers wanting to find these offensive wards, so noone would have made that trip?

Yeah, I think the location of Anoch Sun was really, really lost though. Hence Arlen needing to talk to Abban about the maps to Anoch Sun, and Abban selling him a few fake ones over the course of those months.
I think it's easy to forget how big that Krasian desert is  ;D

But I thought the same thing, surely there are other like minded messengers who would have gone searching for the attack wards.
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