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Author Topic: The Painted Man / The Warded Man  (Read 33874 times)

Offline Nighteyes

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Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2011, 06:55:28 PM »
The Reena POVs are just harsh. Martin and even Hobb to an extent has some dark moments, but the stuff in her POVs is as dark as you can get.
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Offline Overlord

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Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2011, 10:21:47 AM »
I m enjoying The Desert Spear. The scenes in the demon maze are just awesome. Just wish there was less parallels with fundamentalist Islamic society. Maybe the women could have been warriors too like with the Aiel in WOT 

The Islamic thing annoyed me a bit too, I suppose it's because the parallels are so balatant. But I think ultimately there is a reason for it, particularly the role of women in the society. I'll say no more as you're still reading it.

I think though that most Fantasy books really are based on the Christian / American / British type societies - it is only because it is something different people notice it so clearly. I don't really think it's all that bad.

A lot of people complain with the usage of women - I have an interview with Peter V. Brett soon though, so will bring up both the issues... I'm not going to say they are my problems though... I'm blaming the complaining on the_hound and you Hoosay ;) :D :P
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Offline pornokitsch

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Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2011, 04:51:23 PM »
A lot of people complain with the usage of women - I have an interview with Peter V. Brett soon though, so will bring up both the issues... I'm not going to say they are my problems though... I'm blaming the complaining on the_hound and you Hoosay ;) :D :P

And me. I think his treatment of women is atrocious. In both books. They're limited to being the party cleric and/or sex object and are apparently controlled by their "wombs" (a word that hadn't previously been used for a century, I think). Also, must everyone be raped? Rumor has it, there are other way to build character.

That's it.

For now. ;-)

Offline Nighteyes

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Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2011, 05:10:27 PM »
I do enjoy your commentary on novels, Pornokitsch. But. You apply 21st century values to fantasy novels which are set in worlds resembling ours in medieval times. A time when men were adults at 14 and women were married off at 11 or 12 once they had their first period. Though Brett does overplay it a bit.
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Offline pornokitsch

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Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2011, 05:39:47 PM »
I do enjoy your commentary on novels, Pornokitsch. But. You apply 21st century values to fantasy novels which are set in worlds resembling ours in medieval times. A time when men were adults at 14 and women were married off at 11 or 12 once they had their first period. Though Brett does overplay it a bit.

Brett doesn't live in medieval times. Nor do I. So the author has selected an arbitrary set of cultural values that involve women thinking wholly with their wombs and having sex in the mud minutes after being raped.

If he can choose to create a world where demons spawn from a head of lettuce, why can't he create a world where women aren't raped every 16 pages?

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Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2011, 05:49:17 PM »
Agreed he overplays it. but in a medieval era world women are generally are going to not be empowered souls. Though a writer could do things a bit different. Even jordan gave some empowerment to his ladies. Just trying to defend him a bit as his books are enjoyable reads . . . Though some odd points.   
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Offline pornokitsch

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Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2011, 05:55:02 PM »
Agreed he overplays it. but in a medieval era world women are generally are going to not be empowered souls. Though a writer could do things a bit different. Even jordan gave some empowerment to his ladies. Just trying to defend him a bit as his books are enjoyable reads . . . Though some odd points.   

I'm with you on the enjoyment - I think they're really entertaining. I powered through both of 'em in a mad rush. But I do think he really falls down on a couple of points. Quite badly. The instant I step back from the book, I'm like... eeeeeeeeeeee. And then realize I don't feel comfortable recommending them to anyone. Even my wife admits that The Warded Man was sort of seductively more-ish (in between throwing it across teh room).

Probably 'cause he's got one of the most unique worlds I've seen in decades. He earns bonus points for wildly creative world building.

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Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2011, 05:57:46 PM »
Having a wife who was raised Muslim makes the Karisa empire quite disturbing for me as well.
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Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2011, 06:00:43 PM »
I have a friend who I always lend all my fantasy novels too, but since he is Muslim and has had just had a baby daughter, I m really not sure I can lend these ones to him
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Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2011, 09:39:59 PM »
I have a friend who I always lend all my fantasy novels too, but since he is Muslim and has had just had a baby daughter, I m really not sure I can lend these ones to him

Ermmmmmmmmmmm... I'd say no to that one!!! :P


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If he can choose to create a world where demons spawn from a head of lettuce, why can't he create a world where women aren't raped every 16 pages?

You could argue that guys like Martin do a similar thing... Brett certainly isn't the first person to write females in the manner that he does... I didn't actually find Brett's work all that disturbing in all honesty. Some of the incest themes in GoT are far, far worse for me.
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Offline Nighteyes

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Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2011, 07:37:17 AM »
I have a friend who I always lend all my fantasy novels too, but since he is Muslim and has had just had a baby daughter, I m really not sure I can lend these ones to him

Ermmmmmmmmmmm... I'd say no to that one!!! :P


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If he can choose to create a world where demons spawn from a head of lettuce, why can't he create a world where women aren't raped every 16 pages?

You could argue that guys like Martin do a similar thing... Brett certainly isn't the first person to write females in the manner that he does... I didn't actually find Brett's work all that disturbing in all honesty. Some of the incest themes in GoT are far, far worse for me.

He's not a practising Muslim, so the Karisia society will probably just have him rolling his eyes, like us Brits do when we see well spoken British actors playing the bad guy in American films.  It's more the Dads fucking daughters that will upset him!

And seriously?  Brett is way worse than Martin .... Martin has consenting sex between a brother and a sister, Brett has fathers raping their daughters, and male soldiers sodomizing young boys.  At least in Martin they all consent!  
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Offline WizardofWestmarch

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Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2011, 07:42:29 AM »
Not sure it is fair to call Daenyrs to Kal Drogo consent early on.
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Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2011, 07:47:10 AM »
But Kal Drogo ain't her daddy!
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Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2011, 07:48:12 AM »
You said they all consent! and basically raping a 14 year old is in the same league to me :P
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Re: The Painted Man / The Warded Man
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2011, 07:50:46 AM »
She did seem to enjoy it though :P

and random raping a 14 year old or Dad raping his 14 year old daughter?
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