October 15, 2019, 12:27:31 PM

Author Topic: Memories of Ice - Finished!  (Read 9564 times)

Offline xiagan

  • Writing Contest Organizer
  • Powers That Be
  • Elderling
  • *
  • Posts: 5947
  • Total likes: 2588
  • Gender: Male
  • Master Procrastinator
    • View Profile
Memories of Ice - Finished!
« on: March 07, 2014, 07:16:12 PM »
Wow. What a book, what an ending.

Incredible death toll. Whiskeyjack, Ithkovian, most of the bridgeburners, most of Gruntle's tigers...

And Tool is "human" once again. I wonder if we will see more of him and his sister. I'm wondering, are you automatically immortal once you are soultaken?

Did any of you think that the new Knight of High House Death is Baudin? He died in flames, has bronze skin and died protecting a "child".

So Duiker is back among the living. Poor boy...

K'rul's temple to a tavern. Only the bridgeburners could do something like this. I'm pretty sure this place will become a lodenstone to various happenings in the future.

Paran's blessing of the dead bridgeburners - will they become a new house and ascend? Something will happen with them, but I have no idea what.

Who do you think was the beggar Paran met after leaving the Azath house?
"Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis." (Laplace)

Offline Idlewilder

Re: Memories of Ice - Finished!
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2014, 10:04:34 PM »
Phenomenal book. One of the best (and I do mean BEST) epic fantasies I have read.

Quote
Incredible death toll. Whiskeyjack, Ithkovian, most of the bridgeburners, most of Gruntle's tigers...

I know...  :'(  Whiskeyjack's I could see coming for the whole book, but all those Bridgeburners...especially Hedge. What the hell is Fiddler going to be like when he finds out?  :(

Quote
Did any of you think that the new Knight of High House Death is Baudin? He died in flames, has bronze skin and died protecting a "child".

I'm positive it is Baudin.

Quote
So Duiker is back among the living. Poor boy...

Amazing epilogue - just shows how they can work well when done well. The light-hearted tone mixed with that big twist wouldn't have worked tacked on at the end of the last chapter.

Quote
Paran's blessing of the dead bridgeburners - will they become a new house and ascend? Something will happen with them, but I have no idea what.

Certainly seems that way. Can't wait to find out.

Quote
Who do you think was the beggar Paran met after leaving the Azath house?

It was Munug, the merchant from the beginning who sold Picker the Tiger ring things. He has no power in his legs (Crippled God took it away) and he refers to another house - presumably the House of Chains.  ;)

Also, Vorcan and Rallick Nom are still in the Finnest House, slumped in the...what would you call it? The porch? The conservatory?  ;D


In a book where SO much happens (seriously - Erikson puts other epic fantasy writers to shame with how much he willingly gives the reader in this, only book 3 of a massive series) there were 3 scenes in the grand finale that really stood out for me, with one in particular being the sole image I still can't get out of my head. They were, in order of amazinlyawesomenessbombastictastic:

3. Paran and Quick Ben visiting the tomb of the Bridgeburners on Moon's Spawn. Erikson's writing was at its best here.

2. Itkovian taking on the burden of the T'lan Imass.

1. Moon's Spawn rising from the depths and skidding onto Coral.

Amazing book.

So the question is: are we heading straight into House of Chains, or do we perhaps take a little break (maybe...a week or two) to read Words of Radiance for those who wish to?
Make Another World.

Offline xiagan

  • Writing Contest Organizer
  • Powers That Be
  • Elderling
  • *
  • Posts: 5947
  • Total likes: 2588
  • Gender: Male
  • Master Procrastinator
    • View Profile
Re: Memories of Ice - Finished!
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2014, 10:16:14 PM »
Yeah, poor Hede, poor Fiddler...

It was Munug, the merchant from the beginning who sold Picker the Tiger ring things. He has no power in his legs (Crippled God took it away) and he refers to another house - presumably the House of Chains.  ;)
Right! Thanks. :)

Quote
In a book where SO much happens (seriously - Erikson puts other epic fantasy writers to shame with how much he willingly gives the reader in this, only book 3 of a massive series)
Absolutely. It's amazing.

Quote
3. Paran and Quick Ben visiting the tomb of the Bridgeburners on Moon's Spawn. Erikson's writing was at its best here.

2. Itkovian taking on the burden of the T'lan Imass.

1. Moon's Spawn rising from the depths and skidding onto Coral.
Loved those scenes too.

Quote
So the question is: are we heading straight into House of Chains, or do we perhaps take a little break (maybe...a week or two) to read Words of Radiance for those who wish to?
Sounds good. I want to read Seraphina and Words of Radiance next. Maybe I have to start all three, though. ;)
"Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis." (Laplace)

Offline Idlewilder

Re: Memories of Ice - Finished!
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2014, 10:18:12 PM »
Sounds good. I want to read Seraphina and Words of Radiance next. Maybe I have to start all three, though. ;)

I don't think I can manage Words of Radiance and House of Chains at once. Not that I don't want to try!  :D  But I have an essay due end of next week, so one is enough for me for at least the next week.
Make Another World.

Online Eclipse

  • Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
  • Dragonrider
  • ***
  • Posts: 4265
  • Total likes: 2132
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Memories of Ice - Finished!
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2014, 02:49:32 PM »
how good was book 4

Gumble the critic  ;D a talking frog/toad

Knight of death  :) kicking Korbal arse

Emancipur and his cat with the olive pit made me laugh along with The Mott Irregulars who were great

Body of a Tiste Edur who could have been murdered by another Tiste Edur ....

Shadowthrone rules the Guardhouse haha the true throne asks Paran to protect us from the new emperor of the Edur

The battle of the tunnels and trenches with the bridgeburner sappers and wizards oh my damn awesome and Paran becomes a shadow woven hound

Blend a raw but pure talent

Toc got a new body :) and Tool a Mortal I think

Now I didn't expect Quick Ben and Paran to go back to morn and do what there did there showing mercy to the jaghut and his sister the whole scene was amazing

Whiskeyjack is dead oh my god or is he. Anomander Rake knows nothing of Moon Spawn's fullest powers with those powers plus Parans blessing on the fallen bridgeburners who know what's going to happen next

Korbal and  Bauchelain seem very powerful but there always seem to come off second best , I thought there be more of a Threat

I loved the Seguleh I hope we see them again

« Last Edit: March 08, 2014, 02:57:47 PM by Eclipse »
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

Jonathan Stroud:Ptolmy's Gate

Offline Jeni

Re: Memories of Ice - Finished!
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2014, 11:06:38 PM »
Good grief.
I think I am kinda losing the plot a little.... ???

If the Omtose Phellack warren is now effectively closed off, won’t that have an impact on the remaining Jaghut? (For a supposedly extinct species they do have a habit of turning up all over the place). I’m wondering about Icarium and Mappo...although if the T’lan can access the Jaghut warren because it runs next to / close to (?) the Tellann warren, then presumably the Jaghut should be able to do the same?

I would really like to see some kind of map/diagram that explains the warren system.  As far as I understand...K’rul created the warrens that humans have access to, presumably because he/ the Elder Gods thought the humans wouldn’t be able to control the power available from the Elder warrens. Can Ascendants access Elder warrens? Shadowthrone does, but he uses the warren of shadow and it is fragmented – would he be able to if it wasn’t? The alien Tiste tribes each use a different Elder warren – Tiste Andii use the warren of darkness, Tiste Edur the warren of shadow, and Tiste 3 the warren of light. And the non-human races can access the Elder warrens too. Paran seems to be the only non-ascendant human (so far) that can use an Elder warren – and he is also using the fragmented warren of shadow.  Actually, no – Kruppe seems to be accessing an Elder power somehow... and he seems to be immune to the power of the Ascendants. Is his power something else entirely that we haven’t discovered yet?
 
And Silverfox. Apart from everything else, she is also a Soletaken / Bonecaster – the daughter of Pran Chole (the White Fox)...so she can shapeshift, right?

Also, Lady Envy...highly amusing... infected warrens didn't seem to phase her much...colluded with Rake to use Dragnipur against her father, it's creator - definitely not a woman to cross...has a sister called Spite? Wonder if we've met her yet...only one that really qualifies for that title so far would be the Sha'ik/Felisin, but maybe we'll never know... :D

Quote
Phenomenal book. One of the best (and I do mean BEST) epic fantasies I have read.

I agree!  ;D

Quote
Incredible death toll. Whiskeyjack, Ithkovian, most of the bridgeburners, most of Gruntle's tigers...
Quote
I know...    Whiskeyjack's I could see coming for the whole book, but all those Bridgeburners
Quote
Whiskeyjack is dead oh my god or is he. Anomander Rake knows nothing of Moon Spawn's fullest powers with those powers plus Parans blessing on the fallen bridgeburners who know what's going to happen next
Quote
Paran's blessing of the dead bridgeburners - will they become a new house and ascend? Something will happen with them, but I have no idea what.

I knew either Whiskeyjack or Korlat wouldn't see the end of the book, but I wasn't sure which one it would be. Poor Korlat. I quite liked her in this book, I wonder how this will change her?  :(

The fact that Moon Spawn was created by the K'Chain was a bit of a cool surprise  8)  :o

Didn't one of Motts lot say that Whiskeyjack was a mason before he became a soldier...opens up a few posibilities for entry to one of the Dragon houses as mason or soldier if Paran's blessing means they are all about to ascend... ??? Is Shadowthrone (Kellanved) gonna get his Bridgeburners back in High House Shadow, or will Rake recruit Whiskeyjack for High House Dark? Maybe this time though, they really are all gone.   :'(

Quote
Did any of you think that the new Knight of High House Death is Baudin? He died in flames, has bronze skin and died protecting a "child".
Quote
I'm positive it is Baudin

Me too  :)

Quote
2. Itkovian taking on the burden of the T'lan Imass.

I was better prepared for it this time, no tears....but then there was the funeral, and once more I was in bits  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Funniest scene however, had to be Hetan and Kruppe - did NOT see that coming! :o - she managed to shut him up for 2 whole days!! ;D ;D ;D

I'm glad Tool got a chance to live his own life and that Toc the [even] Younger survived.

I noticed a mention of Midnight Tides during a discussion regarding the Tiste Edur...guess we'll be getting to know them a bit better soon  :D

Offline AlmightyZael

Re: Memories of Ice - Finished!
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2016, 01:44:46 PM »
Reviving a two year old thread at the request of Xi  8) Copy/paste of an existing post elsewhere, but with some edits to make it more relevant to Fantasy Faction. MASSIVE post incoming.


Did any of you think that the new Knight of High House Death is Baudin? He died in flames, has bronze skin and died protecting a "child".


I did not. Though now that you mention it it makes enough sense to be true! Man, you think you're getting the hang of this series and then it turns out it's much, much deeper than you even realised!

[Strong Language, there are more swear words in this post than the entirety of the MBotF I imagine *I've edited those to 'fluff' for the sake of keeping it civil*]

TL;DR - Time to WITNESS and fluff Silverfox, cannot wait to keep going, definitely my favourite novel so far.

I finished the book yesterday, after an engrossing 3 or 4 hour session the night before (Pretty much the whole siege of Coral). I was so tired yesterday at jury service, but damn it was worth it!!!

I think I enjoyed the middle section of the book the most, mainly when we were seeing the relationships build between the Host and Brood's army. But, the siege of Capustan and Coral is what really kept me reading - the developments of both arcs were just revelation after revelation (Mortal Swords left, right, and center!), not to mention death after death... Oh, my heart!

I'm so happy that Picker and Blend got out and get to be together, but as I mention further down, I don't think I can bring myself to get too close to anyone now... I hope we see more of them helping Duiker, and I hope they open up about some of their past campaigns. Learning of the formation of the Bridgeburners was my favourite section of anything I've read.

But, just quickly, I want to mention how often the same debate of sexism comes up when looking at the fantasy genre (I remember when I used to frequent FF we used to have a couple posts a week about it, not sure if we still do)

Malazan seems to be pretty gender neutral, especially with relationships (Picker, Blend, Stonny - maybe even some guy love down the road with all these bromances) and how no roles are ever denied either sex. Yet I never see it mentioned as a good example of how we should progress with the issue (in so much as we should treat both sexes equally in our writing, which as far as I'm aware, Erikson does a terrific job of doing - rather than the obvious trope of making the women powerhouses or just revealing a simple matriarchal leadership to get around it etc). This was later pointed out to me as Erikson not addressing the notion because in the Malazan world, it simply doesn't exist, which I think is how ALL aspect of discrimination should be dealt with in media.

This series was always brutal, but nobody I was bothered about ever died (exception of the Chain of Dogs, of course), but these two sieges... just wow. I'd love to see more of Hood, his arrival with Fener's Mortal Sword and his involvement is some serious fluff and it's totally given me a Malazan boner.

Also, Gruntle is fluffing cool. I'm happy he and Toc became quick friends, and I hope Toc/Anaster is reunited with his friend, his brother, Onos. Who's now human!?!?!?!?

As for Whiskeyjack, I'm not ready to talk about it. Earlier I said I was looking forward to his and Rake's friendship developing. Now I'm too scared to like the other characters too much in case... Oh... Poor Korlat. In some ways the Bridgeburners and Twist still follow Whiskeyjack in Moon's Spawn, but the rest of the Host have lost their anchor, their lodestone. But that's a good point about Paran blessing them before he and Quick leave...

My favourites of this book are Picker, Blend, Toc, Tool, Rake, Kallor, Stonny and Gruntle. I grew to like Itkovian after a while, during the siege of Capustan, but I had to warm up to him at first. I cannot wait to see further developments with the Elder Gods, Rake's sword, Paran, Draconus, and Envy and the Seguleh.

As for the Mhybe and Silverfox, I'll be happy if I never see them again. Fluff... they were both so annoying. Silverfox was too childish, and is in no way worth Whiskeyjack's life to save (story and consequences aside). Literally just tell the people who are trying to fluffing help you what you're doing you stupid fluff! I'd gladly lose Tattersail to not have to deal with her anymore. Though I can see where she has room to mature and become another badass of the series.

And the Mhybe... Jeez. How people could complain about Duiker and not this miserable sod I'll never know. I understand, it was a cruel twist of her fate that what happened to her did, but she was a fluffing coward the entire time and I lost all respect for her for that. Though I would thank her for helping Togg and Fanderay (and thus helping Toc).

[Side note: Murillio or Coll mentioning 'how many old ladies are there dreaming up worlds' kinda emphasized the parallels between the Mhybe and Burn. Interesting food for thought. Is Burn the Mhybe's equivalent? In which case all the Holds/warrens (K'rul's own blood), races, cultures, plants, animals, continents are all natural formations/evolutions of a birth similar to what happened with the T'lan Imass' memories/souls crashing to the dreamworld within Tellan that Silverfox created - in which case the ultimate lesson is that everything we do and all the pain we cause is pointless, as it's all within someone else's reality... The games these gods play. Do they know it's futility? Just speculation of course :) ]

Itkovian's Gift... I wasn't at all ready for those feels. In fact, I don't think I was ready for anything that happened in the last 10-15% of the novel...

Kallor. I actually really liked Kallor. I know he's responsible for Whiskeyjack's death, but his character... I don't think he's evil. What he did to what is now the Imperial warren was fluffing fantastic, I can definitely relate to his stubbornness. "You came to take my kingdom from me, so I fluffing destroyed it. Screw you." We shall see how he develops, I hope. (I think the exposition about the special aging candles was uncharacteristic compared the the rest of the series, we actually found something new and were told what it was... strange).

Character and events aside, this book was fluffing fantastic. I'd recommend the series to anyone just so they can read this book. I felt it was a lot better written than the other two, it had a great narrative style, and the perspective jumps worked really well this time around. Jumping between perspectives when there was action and consequences (Brood's hammer and the revelation of Moon's Spawn in particular) kept the sense of a grand battle alive, rather than multiple smaller battles.

Overall MoI seemed to maintain a clear focus on the direction it wanted to have. It felt like a single (I know there are many but this was focused) tale that headed to a clear path, whilst also providing insight into the things to come, the larger plot, without being overly prophetic or confusing.

My word, I can't even begin to comprehend the amount of connections I've missed after reading everyone else's posts here. The re-read is definitely gonna have to happen!

House of Chains is ready to go on my Kindle, time to WITNESS!

Thanks for reading - sorry it was a big 'un. First in, last out.
Up Helly Aah!

Offline xiagan

  • Writing Contest Organizer
  • Powers That Be
  • Elderling
  • *
  • Posts: 5947
  • Total likes: 2588
  • Gender: Male
  • Master Procrastinator
    • View Profile
Re: Memories of Ice - Finished!
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2016, 06:30:38 PM »
Gosh, reading this brought so many feels back... Looking forward to you posting in the other threads too when you've read further. :)
"Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis." (Laplace)

Offline Hedin

Re: Memories of Ice - Finished!
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2016, 08:49:14 PM »
Gosh, reading this brought so many feels back... Looking forward to you posting in the other threads too when you've read further. :)

Yep, I was smiling to myself reading this.  I really think this book is the main turning point in the series.  By this point most of the major players and areas have been introduced and you're starting to get a feel of what is going on.

I'd love to see more of Hood....

Hood has some of my favorite scenes in the series later on.

This series was always brutal, but nobody I was bothered about ever died (exception of the Chain of Dogs, of course), but these two sieges... just wow.

Just be prepared for more gut punches followed by a kick in the balls.

Offline AlmightyZael

Re: Memories of Ice - Finished!
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2016, 10:07:10 PM »
So many feels! Have either of you done a reread to pick up on all the subtleties? I honestly can't wait to be all clued up so I can read it all again!

I can already tell from the start of House of Chains, that what I've read so far feels like a completely different series. Kinda refreshing because it doesn't feel like I'm in the fourth book of a massive story (so far!).

But yeah, if you guys liked this I'll be sure to post more as I get through the series :) I'm by no means a quick reader though so I apologise in advance if it takes the rest of the year to read it haha
Up Helly Aah!

Offline Hedin

Re: Memories of Ice - Finished!
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2016, 01:23:43 PM »
I started a reread this Spring but fell off it as there were some new things I wanted to get to first.  I did finish Gardens and I did pick up on a few little things here and there that I either missed or didn't quite make sense to me the first time around.

Offline ScarletBea

  • Welcome party and bringer of Cake. 2nd-in-Command of the Writing Contest
  • Powers That Be
  • Big Wee Hag
  • *
  • Posts: 11069
  • Total likes: 6384
  • Gender: Female
  • Geeky Reading Introvert
    • View Profile
    • LibraryThing profile
Re: Memories of Ice - Finished!
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2018, 07:06:33 PM »
(no, not finished yet, but almost)

Oh man, Quick Ben - he's superb :D :D
I remember you guys mentioning him when I was reading GotM and I wondered why, since he wasn't that big or visible in that first book, but now... WOW!

I love the humanity and realism of Whiskeyjack, and his relationship with Korlat. In a strange way, he's my favourite.
And I'm thinking like him, of course Anomander Rake isn't dead or vanished!

Can't wait to see what's in store for Toc... poor him :(

Edit:~60 pages later.
No. No no no. That can't have happened. They will be saved. >:( :'( >:( :'(
And I'm so tired, I can't read any more tonight...
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 10:43:38 PM by ScarletBea »
At home in the Fantasy Faction forum!

"Let us think the unthinkable, let us do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all" - Douglas Adams

Offline Idlewilder

Re: Memories of Ice - Finished!
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2018, 03:07:13 PM »
(no, not finished yet, but almost)

Oh man, Quick Ben - he's superb :D :D
I remember you guys mentioning him when I was reading GotM and I wondered why, since he wasn't that big or visible in that first book, but now... WOW!

I love the humanity and realism of Whiskeyjack, and his relationship with Korlat. In a strange way, he's my favourite.
And I'm thinking like him, of course Anomander Rake isn't dead or vanished!

Can't wait to see what's in store for Toc... poor him :(

Edit:~60 pages later.
No. No no no. That can't have happened. They will be saved. >:( :'( >:( :'(
And I'm so tired, I can't read any more tonight...

So much can happen on any page in the last quarter of every book in the series. Finished yet?
Make Another World.

Offline ScarletBea

  • Welcome party and bringer of Cake. 2nd-in-Command of the Writing Contest
  • Powers That Be
  • Big Wee Hag
  • *
  • Posts: 11069
  • Total likes: 6384
  • Gender: Female
  • Geeky Reading Introvert
    • View Profile
    • LibraryThing profile
Re: Memories of Ice - Finished!
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2018, 09:22:39 PM »
Yes, just finished and I don't know how I feel :'(
I couldn't mourn Whiskeyjack because I kept waiting for something to happen, and it didn't - yes, the light mixed with the sorcery at the end, but it won't be the same, it won't really be him, right?
So many body changes... Toc, Tool, his sister, ...
I miss Iktovian, so sad...
Yay for Duiker!
Rake a Seguleh? And only a Seventh? What exactly are Seguleh anyway, I thought Rake was a Tiste Andii??

So many things ended, and I'm angry. Edit: bereft. That's the right word now.
 :'(
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 08:06:46 AM by ScarletBea »
At home in the Fantasy Faction forum!

"Let us think the unthinkable, let us do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all" - Douglas Adams

Offline xiagan

  • Writing Contest Organizer
  • Powers That Be
  • Elderling
  • *
  • Posts: 5947
  • Total likes: 2588
  • Gender: Male
  • Master Procrastinator
    • View Profile
Re: Memories of Ice - Finished!
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2018, 11:03:21 AM »
I think it's not too much a spoiler to say that the Seguleh are a people where everybody is ranked by their fighting abilities and they're the best (sword) fighters in the world. Rake once defeated the seventh (probably didn't know what a Seguleh was at that time) and became thus the seventh best fighter they acknowledge.

You may come to the point where you feel compassion for Kallor. That's the measure of how great Erikson's writing is. Fuck Mallick Rel, though.
"Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis." (Laplace)