April 06, 2020, 02:28:46 AM

Author Topic: House of Chains: Book 3  (Read 10756 times)

Offline xiagan

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House of Chains: Book 3
« on: March 17, 2014, 10:58:11 AM »
So Karsa now has an T'Lan Imass weapon, made some Jaghut friends and took the talking head of one of the seven with him.

He's listed as the House of Chains' champion in the end of the book but defies the seven "gods" and their master. He clearly has his own agenda and will surprise us all. :)

Poor Felisin. :(

And L'oric is the son of Osric does that mean he is an ascendant himself?

What do you think about Heboric's dream with the green statues filled with people and his rebirth as Trake's destriant?

And Onrack is linked to Kilava, Tool's sister. I wonder if he will he become flesh and bone again someday.

It's a pity we didn't see much of Rake's brother Darist. But more interesting is Traveller, who now holds Vengance, the sword forged by Rake (and second only to Dragnipur?). If he was one of the first in Kellanved's family he could be one of the Admirals (Ameron?) or - if he's still alive - Dassem Ultor.

What did you make of the Otataral Dragon and the fight between Icarium and Karsa? Why did they fight?

Looks as if Fiddler and Kalam will meet again soon. :)
"Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis." (Laplace)

Offline Eclipse

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Re: House of Chains: Book 3
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2014, 05:16:51 PM »
hell you reading fast  :) not read above post, I'm still in book two for now
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

Jonathan Stroud:Ptolmy's Gate

Offline xiagan

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Re: House of Chains: Book 3
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2014, 08:23:06 PM »
hell you reading fast  :) not read above post, I'm still in book two for now
I'll read Words of Radiance after, so you have time to catch up. ;) In book four it's next to impossible to stop reading. :)
"Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis." (Laplace)

Offline Eclipse

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Re: House of Chains: Book 3
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2014, 06:00:15 PM »
What do you think about Heboric's dream with the green statues filled with people and his rebirth as Trake's destriant?


What did you make of the Otataral Dragon and the fight between Icarium and Karsa? Why did they fight?


I got a bit confused with the green statues scenes not sure what's going on there

Otataral Dragon cool  :) and where are the Dragons who imprison it? do you think it was those we saw in Azath House in passing?

I don't know why Icarium and Karsa were fighting each other did I miss something?


I found this passage interesting about Apsalar

"Yet it seemed she draw no pleasure, as a sadiest might. It is more as if she was trained to do so.... trained as a torturer. Yet Cotillion- Dancer- was no torturer. He was An assassin. So where does the vicious streak come from? Does it belong to her own nature? "

ok do you think she has someone else memories as well, maybe the God who got displaced by Dancer?







According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

Jonathan Stroud:Ptolmy's Gate

Offline Jeni

Re: House of Chains: Book 3
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2014, 01:28:22 AM »
Well this is moving along nicely ... the final showdown beckons  ;D

It's a pity we didn't see much of Rake's brother Darist. But more interesting is Traveller, who now holds Vengance, the sword forged by Rake (and second only to Dragnipur?). If he was one of the first in Kellanved's family he could be one of the Admirals (Ameron?) or - if he's still alive - Dassem Ultor.

Yes, I would have liked to get to know Darist a bit more...and find out about the rift between him and Rake...did he stay on the island to protect the throne for Shadowthrone? to prevent his brother claiming it? and the youngsters were Rake's grandchildren?! So where are his children? Were they with him on Moon Spawn? We may never know  :(

I think Traveller is Dassem Ultor.

Cotillion seems to think he knows who is running the Talons...and whoever it is is in, or heading towards Raraku... T'amber? What about Korbolo Dom - he was one of Kellanved's Fists, right? And Kellanved has been up to something even Cotillion doesn't know about... I want to know!!

What do you think about Heboric's dream with the green statues filled with people and his rebirth as Trake's destriant?
I got a bit confused with the green statues scenes not sure what's going on there

It was a bit trippy and surreal. Not sure it was supposed to make a lot of sense tbh as he had just overdosed on that tea to put himself in that state.

So, did Icarium shatter the warren of shadows whilst trying to free his father from the Azath house? It would seem that it is possible to repair the warren, which would be interesting.
The fact that the Tiste L see Icarium as an ally is a bit worrying...Mappo is not going to be a happy bunny when they show up asking for help.

I found this passage interesting about Apsalar

"Yet it seemed she draw no pleasure, as a sadiest might. It is more as if she was trained to do so.... trained as a torturer. Yet Cotillion- Dancer- was no torturer. He was An assassin. So where does the vicious streak come from? Does it belong to her own nature? "

ok do you think she has someone else memories as well, maybe the God who got displaced by Dancer?

Quick Ben and Mallet repaired the part of her mind that was the Seer (from the prologue of GotM) after Cotillion ceased possesion of her (although it appears that he didn't completely leave her - they are still connected somehow), so she still has the Seer within her, although we've yet to discover how much this is affecting her because we know practically nothing about the Seer.

And L'oric is the son of Osric

Almost got that one! :)

Offline Eclipse

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Re: House of Chains: Book 3
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2014, 05:32:05 PM »

I found this passage interesting about Apsalar

"Yet it seemed she draw no pleasure, as a sadist might. It is more as if she was trained to do so.... trained as a torturer. Yet Cotillion- Dancer- was no torturer. He was An assassin. So where does the vicious streak come from? Does it belong to her own nature? "

ok do you think she has someone else memories as well, maybe the God who got displaced by Dancer?

Quick Ben and Mallet repaired the part of her mind that was the Seer (from the prologue of GotM) after Cotillion ceased possession of her (although it appears that he didn't completely leave her - they are still connected somehow), so she still has the Seer within her, although we've yet to discover how much this is affecting her because we know practically nothing about the Seer.


It sounds like Apsalar has got a vicious streak which doesn't come from Cotillion , it could come from the Seer but it read too me like she got it from somewhere else we will see  :)
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

Jonathan Stroud:Ptolmy's Gate

Offline Jeni

Re: House of Chains: Book 3
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2014, 07:43:23 PM »

I found this passage interesting about Apsalar

"Yet it seemed she draw no pleasure, as a sadist might. It is more as if she was trained to do so.... trained as a torturer. Yet Cotillion- Dancer- was no torturer. He was An assassin. So where does the vicious streak come from? Does it belong to her own nature? "

ok do you think she has someone else memories as well, maybe the God who got displaced by Dancer?

Quick Ben and Mallet repaired the part of her mind that was the Seer (from the prologue of GotM) after Cotillion ceased possession of her (although it appears that he didn't completely leave her - they are still connected somehow), so she still has the Seer within her, although we've yet to discover how much this is affecting her because we know practically nothing about the Seer.


It sounds like Apsalar has got a vicious streak which doesn't come from Cotillion , it could come from the Seer but it read too me like she got it from somewhere else we will see  :)

We don't actually know anything about her past, either....maybe she was already like that....maybe choosing her for possession wasn't as much of a random / chance event as it appears....maybe she never was just a simple fiahermans daughter.... :P ;D

Offline Idlewilder

Re: House of Chains: Book 3
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2014, 08:25:01 AM »
Jeebus, this one is firing on all cylinders now, huh?

My favourite section of this part was definitely the section involving (An)Darist, Cutter and the Tiste Edur. So many backhanded revelations, wrapped in mysteries. It’s one of these sections that you just know if you return to it at the end of the series, you will spot lots of hidden meaning. And how EFFING cool is Cotillion? Seriously, he literally fights with a big, heavy rope? And like everyone else I have for now come to the conclusion that Traveller is Dassem Ultor (somehow). This book has sneakily explored Kellanved and Dancer’s companions, and it just feels right that this must be Dassem. I’m pretty sure we were told waaay back that he was Dal Honese, and Traveller is Dal Honese. Plus Dassem Ultor is the only one who I think could realistically be counted as one of the “three” who started the whole empire. Keeper – from the first part, with his big dinosaur tower – must be Urko.

Another big revelation was the L’oric/Osseric connection. I am now dying to meet Osseric – he sounds like someone to rival Anomander Rake. AND speaking of which, it seems Tiste Andii and Tiste Liosan (unsure of the Edur) can disguise themselves as other races! Who have we met that could be someone else entirely?

The jade statues thing was very trippy, but also I thought written incredibly well. It was like Heboric was literally floating in space while high on…tea.  :o

Icarium! Mappo! Karsa smacked Icarium and survived! Who would win in a fair fight? Hood knows… But yeah, I loved (even briefly) seeing Icarium and Mappo again, and was practically cheering at the page when Ryllandaras revealed (offhandedly of course, but we knew!) that Karsa was on their trail.

Who controls the Talon and who makes up their ranks now that Baudin is dead (presumably Hood’s Knight)? I suspect it’s Korbolo Dom as he is one of Kellanved’s old chums.

Iskaral Pust also made his return here, which was fun – he’s a lot like Kruppe in that you have to get used to his dialogue all over again. Very fun character.

And it looks as though more than one Bridgeburner is going to return to Raraku to complete the song – Fiddler and Kalam. And also Apsalar, as a former almost-Bridgeburner, who is with Cutter on a mission for Cotillion…

Could we be lucky enough to see a little appearance of the Empire’s newest High Mage, Mr. Delat? He’s been awfully quiet…
Make Another World.

Offline Jeni

Re: House of Chains: Book 3
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2014, 11:26:24 AM »
OMG.

Now I know how you lot have been feeling - biting your tongues waiting for me to catch up!!  ;D

Thankyou to all of you for the tongue biting.  I really appreciate it!  :)

Offline Idlewilder

Re: House of Chains: Book 3
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2014, 11:50:55 AM »
OMG.

Now I know how you lot have been feeling - biting your tongues waiting for me to catch up!!  ;D

Thankyou to all of you for the tongue biting.  I really appreciate it!  :)

Now I'm the one spitting out dust!  ;)
Make Another World.

Offline Jeni

Re: House of Chains: Book 3
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2014, 11:56:43 AM »
. And how EFFING cool is Cotillion?

I know! One of my favourite characters in this book. Took the action to a whole new level of awesome  :D

Urko had barely been mentioned before this book so I wasn't too sure at first, but with all the mentions since, it seems likely that he is the keeper.

Who have we met that could be someone else entirely?

Er..everyone? :P

Although...I have been wondering about Quick Ben.... maybe not someone else but maybe not entirely human, either? (Not a spoiler btw...been wondering this since GotM....and still wondering!)

 


Offline Idlewilder

Re: House of Chains: Book 3
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2014, 12:01:43 PM »
Who have we met that could be someone else entirely?

Er..everyone? :P

Haha very true!

Although...I have been wondering about Quick Ben.... maybe not someone else but maybe not entirely human, either? (Not a spoiler btw...been wondering this since GotM....and still wondering!)

I'm wondering if Quick has more of a link to shadow (being a former shadwo-priest, like Pust) than he is letting on? We know he can absorb abilities and warren-access. Does he absorb the personalities of those other mages ala Shaik/Felisin or does he remain solely Quick Ben with added power?

God, I don't know if that makes any sense.  :D
Make Another World.

Offline xiagan

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Re: House of Chains: Book 3
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2014, 05:54:18 PM »
Jeebus, this one is firing on all cylinders now, huh?
Absolutely!

Quote
And like everyone else I have for now come to the conclusion that Traveller is Dassem Ultor (somehow). This book has sneakily explored Kellanved and Dancer’s companions, and it just feels right that this must be Dassem. I’m pretty sure we were told waaay back that he was Dal Honese, and Traveller is Dal Honese. Plus Dassem Ultor is the only one who I think could realistically be counted as one of the “three” who started the whole empire. Keeper – from the first part, with his big dinosaur tower – must be Urko.
Yes. Urko and Dassem Ultor. Can't wait for Traveller to mix things up. He has the second mightiest sword now and besides having been a legendary commander he was Hood's knight. No wonder even Cotillion feels unease about him. We know that he never forgave Hood for the death of his daughter. And now he has a sword called vengeance...

Quote
AND speaking of which, it seems Tiste Andii and Tiste Liosan (unsure of the Edur) can disguise themselves as other races! Who have we met that could be someone else entirely?
Not sure about that. L'oric is a high mage (and son of an ascendant), it doesn't need to be something about his race. Who of the Andii disguised himself?

Although...I have been wondering about Quick Ben.... maybe not someone else but maybe not entirely human, either? (Not a spoiler btw...been wondering this since GotM....and still wondering!)

I'm wondering if Quick has more of a link to shadow (being a former shadwo-priest, like Pust) than he is letting on? We know he can absorb abilities and warren-access. Does he absorb the personalities of those other mages ala Shaik/Felisin or does he remain solely Quick Ben with added power?

Huh? This was totally explained in Memories of Ice when we learned how the Bridgeburners were created...
Just in case I'm messing something up and it is in the 4th book of HoC, I'm putting it in spoiler tags.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Each time one of the thirteen mages of the Cabal died, he shifted his soul into Quick Ben because it was better than dying completely. This gave Quick Ben access to their warrens (twelve in total). Their souls are still part of him, i'm just not sure if they have anything to say (and if I recall right, one of those mages was a soultaken, so did he gain that ability too? If yes...). If we look at the other soul shiftings (Hairlock, Tattersail/Nightchill/Belurdan) it is likely that they can somehow influence him. I guess we'll see...
"Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis." (Laplace)

Offline Idlewilder

Re: House of Chains: Book 3
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2014, 06:20:44 PM »
Anomander Rake disguised himself as a human for years - L'oric reveals it in part 3...

Make Another World.

Offline xiagan

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Re: House of Chains: Book 3
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2014, 06:44:21 PM »
Anomander Rake disguised himself as a human for years - L'oric reveals it in part 3...
Right, now I remember. But he's an ascendant too, so we don't know if it's something ascendants/high mages can do or if it's something Tiste can do.
I think if your warren is one of shadow (and/or light/darkness) you can easily do this. Kurald Emurlahn's fragment Meanas is the warren of illusion and deception after all...
"Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis." (Laplace)