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Author Topic: Deadhouse Gates - Finished!  (Read 11431 times)

Offline xiagan

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Deadhouse Gates - Finished!
« on: February 15, 2014, 10:43:45 AM »
Ten thousand soldiers crucified... Could've been only worse if those bastards finally had gotten Aren too. What a shame. I hope Mallick Rel dies a really horrible death. And now Pullyk Alar and the rest of the noble scum is possible in charge of Aren, oh my...

I'm wondering why the able bodied refugees in the chain of dogs didn't try to learn fighting or at least take over some watches so that the soldiers could get more sleep. They acted like cattle and not like other human beings to a point I found hard to believe.

With Duiker apparently coming back to "life", Coltaine getting reborn and Baudin dying on his way to ascension (he had the golden skin Gesler, Stormy and Truth from the Silanda have too) - so probably coming back too I'm wondering if any main characters die at all in the books. If Kulp will be back (the description of his death wasn't explicit for me).

It's cool that Crokus familiar is now guardian of Tremolor. I like that guy. And we learned that demons aren't always bad in this world. Neither he nor Aptorian are evil.

And Kalam is even more badass than I thought. Killing dozens of Claws who even possessed magic... wow.

I like how Felisin/Sha'ik seems to rediscover her humanity. She was really despicable and hopefully that changes now...

What do you think of the Empress' rouse with outlawing Dujek and his army? Brilliant move, imho.

I was a bit sad that there was no progress/resolve concering Icarium and Mappo's thread. Basically they are exactly where they started in the beginning of the book. But since it's still early in the series I hope that there will be some kind of way to heal Icarium - and probably even meet his dad again.

Hah, and Minala and Kalam now have to care for 1.3k children? Really are they in the Shadow warren still or somewhere on the world? And how does Shadowthrone expect them to feed the children?

Loved the foreshadowing where Cotillion and Panek talked about the Shadow warren. And what Apt said to Shadowthrone. why does she have some leverage over him now? Lots of foreshadowing...

I'm curious to what and if we'll hear from Apsalar and Crokus again. Are they really an item? Or is she just using him? And will her ties with the rope really be cut? I don't think so, no matter what Shadowthrone promised.

So the gate is secure now (the T'lan Imass bonecaster undead dragon soultaken who guarded the gate left)?

And Iscaral Pust found the love of his life. A woman full of spiders from his home country. Lovely. ;)

Did any of you worked out that Salk Elan is Pearl? Because I didn't...
"Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis." (Laplace)

Offline Jonny_Anonymous

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Re: Deadhouse Gates - Finished!
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2014, 07:54:18 PM »
I would answer some of your questions but I kinda don't want to since the fun is in the finding but I will say, yes main characters will die, nobody is safe. Malazan is my favourite book series and it was Coltaine and the ending of this book that sold me on it   :)
“There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for ever should we fail- should we fall- we will know that we have lived.”


? Anomander Rake

Offline Eclipse

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Re: Deadhouse Gates - Finished!
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2014, 05:20:47 PM »
Wow Kalam showdown with the Empress ! hmm do you believe her explanations

Yay Gesler, Stormy and Truth live now with pet dogs

Kalam killing all the claws Brilliant

I really liked Apt/Panek interchanges with Shadowthrone and uncle  Cotillion "does he imagine  that he now walks unseen"

Moby's a demon wow didn't expect that and he was the one on the road battling all those shapeshifters and now his a Guardian even if he does leave a mess in the hall room love the humour  little throw away lines like that and Pust meeting his girlfriend in the novel and Fiddler being too good at imitating a Gral and being awesome in using his weapons  ;D

The map in Tremolor how big is the world the empire is only smudge on it

I didn't have a clue that Salk Elan was Pearl, wouldn't want to be in his shoes just now

The Guardian Gothos at malaz city wasn't he the one who wrote the book about Tiste Edur a sour tempered writer Hebrric said  ;D

Pormqual I did think he was under a spell by Mallick Rel to explain all his bad decisions but it looks like he was just  incompetent how did he get to be high fist?

I felt sad at list death

The merchant traders which mysterious appeared  are interesting there gave Quick Bens item to Coltaine who passed it  on to Duiker and now I think Rudd and Irp have got it now or is that something else?

lots of children for kalam to babysit  :) maybe he build a city

Crokus  I was a bit disappointed with him in the story liked him better in GotM

Please stop using the word ochre every chance you get  ;D



 
« Last Edit: February 16, 2014, 05:35:41 PM by Eclipse »
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

Jonathan Stroud:Ptolmy's Gate

Offline Justan Henner

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Re: Deadhouse Gates - Finished!
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2014, 05:24:41 PM »

The Guardian Gothos at malaz city wasn't he the one who wrote the book about Tiste Eduar a sour tempered writer Hebrric said  ;D


Yes, he's also the author of many of the poems/prose at the start of the chapters.

Offline Eclipse

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Re: Deadhouse Gates - Finished!
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2014, 05:34:30 PM »
I really should concentrate at the prose and poems at start of the chapters, think I've got into a habit of ignoring poems in other novels which don't add  anything to the story there are telling :(
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

Jonathan Stroud:Ptolmy's Gate

Offline Justan Henner

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Re: Deadhouse Gates - Finished!
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2014, 05:50:07 AM »
I really should concentrate at the prose and poems at start of the chapters, think I've got into a habit of ignoring poems in other novels which don't add  anything to the story there are telling :(

I think you'll be fine. I have a hard time doing anything more than just skimming them, and when I am paying attention its pretty rare that I find any meaning in them haha. I have noticed the authors however, and Gothos shows up quite often, always some pretty bleak stuff, as Heboric notes.

Offline Idlewilder

Re: Deadhouse Gates - Finished!
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2014, 10:01:59 AM »
Well, after a couple of previous attempts I finally finished it! Absolutely phenomenal read; I can now finally see why it's so highly regarded. I really enjoyed Gardens of the Moon, but this is on another level entirely. Structurally it is far more cohesive, following a set of viewpoints we return to at some point in most chapters (Felisin, Duiker, Kalam, Fiddler, Mappo) rather than GotM which tended to jump between lots of different viewpoints, with Paran being the only central POV.

This series is wonderfully multi-cultural and pretty much devoid of gender imbalance. Unlike most epic fantasy, where the author bases it heavily in a world based on our historical cultures, Erikson (and Esslemont) have just gone for it and completely made their own world, free of the usual cultural anchors fantasy authors tend to nab from our own world history.

The last couple of hundred pages of this were relentless, huh? I saw Felisin's role as Sha'i'k coming (seems her 'daughter' is the Felisin who wrote/will write 'Call to Shadow'...) but loved the way Erikson wrote it. Mappo and Icarium's plotline seems to be one that we will return to later on. I expect Icarium will play a big role in the endgame. Fiddler/Kalam/Crokus/Apsalar's endings all felt a little bit neat, though it was nice to see Shadowthrone again - is it just me, or does he seem more unhinged than Cotillion?

But the big ending was definitely that of Coltaine/Duiker. Shocking, appalling, gut-wrenching. Seriously - Game of Thrones has NOTHING on this series. I actually got a stress headache reading this ending.

The only thing I struggled with this time round was some of the Chain of Dogs engagements throughout the book. They were so chaotic that I found it difficult to picture/understand exactly what was going on and what the scenery was like. There was one bit of writing that was incredible; I think when Duiker first hits the fray with the unnamed soldier and Erikson's writing just makes it feel like absolute chaos.

Quote
I'm wondering why the able bodied refugees in the chain of dogs didn't try to learn fighting or at least take over some watches so that the soldiers could get more sleep. They acted like cattle and not like other human beings to a point I found hard to believe.

We don't know that they didn't - the servants joined up after all. But also they were starved and parched for pretty much the whole journey. I think Coltaine or Bult at one point told Duiker that they were keeping their reserves for the soldiers to keep their strength up. So didn't seem to unrealistic to me.

Quote
With Duiker apparently coming back to "life", Coltaine getting reborn and Baudin dying on his way to ascension (he had the golden skin Gesler, Stormy and Truth from the Silanda have too) - so probably coming back too I'm wondering if any main characters die at all in the books. If Kulp will be back (the description of his death wasn't explicit for me).

I know! But somehow I don't feel cheated. In this really weird world of Warrens/Gods/Ascendants, it feels right that this would happen. Plus we've seen with the likes of Hairlock and Tattersail that it isn't always so simple.

Quote
What do you think of the Empress' rouse with outlawing Dujek and his army? Brilliant move, imho.

I'm not convinced.  ;)

Quote
Did any of you worked out that Salk Elan is Pearl? Because I didn't...

Nope! I thought it might be Topper from GotM.

I really should concentrate at the prose and poems at start of the chapters, think I've got into a habit of ignoring poems in other novels which don't add  anything to the story there are telling :(

I think you'll be fine. I have a hard time doing anything more than just skimming them, and when I am paying attention its pretty rare that I find any meaning in them haha. I have noticed the authors however, and Gothos shows up quite often, always some pretty bleak stuff, as Heboric notes.

I love the quotes! Some of them reveal some very cool bits of foreshadowing. Anomander Rake's being a dragon, for instance, is foreshadowed throughout GotM in these quotations.

Re: Gothos, didn't the Malazan army take scour for all evidence of Gothos' work from Pale in GotM?

The one line from Deadhouse Gates I just can't get out of my head is a thought Duiker has, that just sums up this whole series and life in general. Fantastic:

"The lesson of history, is that no-one learns."

And now I've already started Memories of Ice! Time to find out what's been happening on Genabackis during of all of this...
Make Another World.

Offline Jonny_Anonymous

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Re: Deadhouse Gates - Finished!
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2014, 02:35:27 PM »
What did everybody think of Felisin? I tried real hard to feel sorry for her but she was just so harsh and mean spirited that I began to hate her.
“There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for ever should we fail- should we fall- we will know that we have lived.”


? Anomander Rake

Offline Justan Henner

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Re: Deadhouse Gates - Finished!
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2014, 05:07:22 PM »
What did everybody think of Felisin? I tried real hard to feel sorry for her but she was just so harsh and mean spirited that I began to hate her.

It's interesting, because you really want to like her at the beginning because she's related to Paran, and seems so sympathetic, but the further it goes along the more I disliked her because while she makes understandable decisions, they're all the selfish or otherwise 'wrong' decisions. I mean, the drug abuse and essentially becoming the pit master's sex slave are at the level of 'unpalatable,' but the fact she blames everyone else for her problems, especially her hatred for Heboric and Baudin who are trying to help her the entire time, is what pushes it over the edge.

Offline Justan Henner

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Re: Deadhouse Gates - Finished!
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2014, 05:12:45 PM »

I love the quotes! Some of them reveal some very cool bits of foreshadowing. Anomander Rake's being a dragon, for instance, is foreshadowed throughout GotM in these quotations.

Re: Gothos, didn't the Malazan army take scour for all evidence of Gothos' work from Pale in GotM?


Yes, but there are just so many of them, I often forget what it is I've learned by the time I get through the chapter haha.

As for the Gothos part, it's possible, I don't quite remember, but I believe Gothos and his writings have traveled the world. (He lives in an Azath House, after all, so we have to assume he's been places.)

Offline Jonny_Anonymous

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Re: Deadhouse Gates - Finished!
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2014, 06:50:40 PM »
What did everybody think of Felisin? I tried real hard to feel sorry for her but she was just so harsh and mean spirited that I began to hate her.

It's interesting, because you really want to like her at the beginning because she's related to Paran, and seems so sympathetic, but the further it goes along the more I disliked her because while she makes understandable decisions, they're all the selfish or otherwise 'wrong' decisions. I mean, the drug abuse and essentially becoming the pit master's sex slave are at the level of 'unpalatable,' but the fact she blames everyone else for her problems, especially her hatred for Heboric and Baudin who are trying to help her the entire time, is what pushes it over the edge.

Yea, I remember when I read the book I kept wishing Baudin would just kill her or leave her in the desert
“There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for ever should we fail- should we fall- we will know that we have lived.”


? Anomander Rake

Offline Jeni

Re: Deadhouse Gates - Finished!
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2014, 11:05:36 PM »
I just finished this.

I need chocolate.  Lots. Of. Chocolate.


Offline xiagan

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AW: Re: Deadhouse Gates - Finished!
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2014, 09:00:54 AM »
I just finished this.

I need chocolate.  Lots. Of. Chocolate.
I know exactly what you mean.
"Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis." (Laplace)

Offline Jeni

Re: AW: Re: Deadhouse Gates - Finished!
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2014, 01:18:18 AM »
I just finished this.

I need chocolate.  Lots. Of. Chocolate.
I know exactly what you mean.

 :D

This series is wonderfully multi-cultural and pretty much devoid of gender imbalance. Unlike most epic fantasy, where the author bases it heavily in a world based on our historical cultures, Erikson (and Esslemont) have just gone for it and completely made their own world, free of the usual cultural anchors fantasy authors tend to nab from our own world history.

Yes, there are more female characters in this series so far than I would have expected - a variety of strong, individual women that can be just as intelligent, cunning, complex and dangerous as the male characters. This doesn't happen often enough in fantasy and its one of the reasons that I am loving these books so much.  :)

I was a bit sad that there was no progress/resolve concering Icarium and Mappo's thread. Basically they are exactly where they started in the beginning of the book.

There was progress for Mappo. The journey they took with Fiddler & Co. made him take a more honest look at himself and his motivations than he has done for maybe centuries...and while he is maintaining the illusion of nothing changing he knows that it is only a matter of time before he is forced to complete his task - and wheras before he could kid himself that he would be able to go through with it, he can't do that now. This changes the whole relationship. Mappo is now also aware that Icarium has been recieving dreams from the Nameless Ones that hint at what he may be capable of when he remembers his past...I wonder if he is now suspicious about his own initiation as companion and will start to realise just how much he has been manipulated by them too.

What did everybody think of Felisin? I tried real hard to feel sorry for her but she was just so harsh and mean spirited that I began to hate her.

It's interesting, because you really want to like her at the beginning because she's related to Paran, and seems so sympathetic, but the further it goes along the more I disliked her because while she makes understandable decisions, they're all the selfish or otherwise 'wrong' decisions. I mean, the drug abuse and essentially becoming the pit master's sex slave are at the level of 'unpalatable,' but the fact she blames everyone else for her problems, especially her hatred for Heboric and Baudin who are trying to help her the entire time, is what pushes it over the edge.

Yea, I remember when I read the book I kept wishing Baudin would just kill her or leave her in the desert

Me too  :)

But the big ending was definitely that of Coltaine/Duiker. Shocking, appalling, gut-wrenching. Seriously - Game of Thrones has NOTHING on this series. I actually got a stress headache reading this ending.

For someone that doesn't like drawn out battles, this one definitely got to me. I was quite surprised to find myself literally crying with relief and desperately hoping that the refugees might actually survive when Nether bartered for an escort to the Aren road gate...and again when Duicker hugged Squint.  :'( :'( :'( 


The merchant traders which mysterious appeared  are interesting there gave Quick Bens item to Coltaine who passed it  on to Duiker and now I think Rudd and Irp have got it now or is that something else?

Rudd and Irp do have the vial...it contains Duickers soul/consciousness ... they also took his body - not sure how well it can be restored, if at all, but I think the plan is to remake Duiker as himself.


Hah, and Minala and Kalam now have to care for 1.3k children? Really are they in the Shadow warren still or somewhere on the world?

This was unexpected. All of a sudden he decides to quit and live a quiet life...a good job Shadowthorne has a sense of humour! He obviously expects Kalam to train them to be an army of assassins - The Thorns? Probably not in the warren, but somewhere extremely remote and nowhere near any continent they are familiar with.


And we learned that demons aren't always bad in this world. Neither he nor Aptorian are evil.

I am guessing that we are going to be constantly re-evaluating our definitions of evil in this series and will never be quite 100%certain who the true evil is until the end....and maybe not even then  :P

And now for book 3  8)






Offline Serenity

Re: Deadhouse Gates - Finished!
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2014, 09:53:03 PM »
Please stop using the word ochre every chance you get  ;D

Just wait until 'crepuscular' turns up  ;D


Well.  Just finished my re-read this afternoon.  Each time I've read this book I've surfaced at the other end in pieces.  It's so immersive, so atmospheric, so focused that I find it impossible not to get totally invested in the characters and their various struggles.  And he's not afraid to put them (and me!) through the wringer.  He's the only author I've encountered (so far) whose books have the ability to leave me an emotional wreck.  The ending of the Chain of Dogs just breaks me up  :'(  To go through all that and then have that incompetent, cowardly fool Pormqual refuse to budge.  Aaaaagh!  Coltaine!  Bult!  List!  Poor Nether's reaction.  And then  Duiker crucified  :'(  And everything poor Mappo went through  :(   Balance that with Kalam's awesomeness, and everything involving Iskaral Pust.   And the bit where the Khundryl help out and the war chief bellows "The Wickans! The Wickans! The Wickans!"
 
I can't think of one part of the story where I felt bored, or wanted to skip parts involving a particular character (even if Felisin is particularly unsympathetic for much of the book).  I think, because there are so many intertwining storylines here, and so many great characters, that the pages keep turning.  For such a doorstopper - it never loses that focus and drive.  It's also so much fun to spot the foreshadowing and little hints and glimpses of what's to come.

And then there's the ending.  Not the ending of the main plotline(s) but the very last page.  Erikson has written some of the best prologues and epilogues I've come across.  I remember the first time I read DG, and the hairs on the back of my neck were standing on end, and it happened again this time.  It's just a perfect ending for this book, so fitting that I can't imagine any way he could've done it better.  As my favourite final pages go, there are two or three books that I always think of:  Richard Matheson's I Am Legend, GRRM's A Storm of Swords, and there are a couple of other Malazan books that rank above them.  Erikson's got a knack for it, and this one's my favourite.  Crows, so many crows --.  Goosebumps.

So, so good.
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