November 28, 2020, 10:37:20 PM

Author Topic: For those that have finished!  (Read 4987 times)

Offline Overlord

For those that have finished!
« on: July 04, 2012, 07:35:32 PM »
If you have already read this one, feel free to talk about it and give us your thoughts :)
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Offline Arry

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Re: For those that have finished!
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2012, 02:27:59 PM »
Finished! I may have more comments later after I ponder the book a little longer. My initial reaction is that I have never felt so conflicted or had such a love hate attitude towards a book. I want to love this book. I do love the flow of prose,the style he uses to tell his story and I can tell that this is without a doubt a book that I would enjoy more on subsequent reads. I always enjoy picking up additional details on a re-read and i imagine this book would have a plethora of things to uncover/discover.

However,  I also can not remember disliking a protagonist as much as I dislike Severian. As I mentioned at the end of Shadow, Severian's relationships with and attitudes towards the women in this book irk me immensely. That certainly did not improve in Claw...  I then question why I am investing the time to read this when I get so annoyed and just generally dislike the main character. I wonder why I should read on when I start to feel like I dont even care about him. Then I think about the reasons I enjoy the book and wonder if Severian will grow up or if Wolfe will add a strong female somewhere to offset Severian. But since we are getting everything from Severians point of view,   I am starting to think that highly unlikely.

So, as I said initially, my overwhelming impression of this book is just conflicted:-\
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Offline Nighteyes

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Re: For those that have finished!
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2012, 03:40:31 PM »
It is definitely interesting.  Its one of those books that leaves you feeling a bit dumb, as so much seems to be going over your head.  At the end Hildegrin reappears, and we meet Cumaean, but rather than me going oh those guys, I had to flick back I admit.  And of course Hildegrin was there at the beginning with Voladus, and ferried Severian across the lake, and there we saw the cave of Cumaean, and it was discussed that the botanical gardens were built for her.  The whole book is a complete head fuck!  And definitely needs to be reread once I get to the end of volume 4, just to try and make sense of all it all.  Its all rather epic with a very complex mythology, which actually reminds me to an extent of Sandman by Neil Gaiman.  I did enjoy the tale within a tale which of course was a retelling of Theseus and the Minotaur's labyrinth, and was totally confused by the play within the story. 

And yes Severian is totally dis-likeable, but then many protagonists are.   Who actually likes Rand Al Thor for example?  And poor Jolanta, never has a female character been treated so badly. 
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Offline Arry

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Re: For those that have finished!
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2012, 07:04:48 PM »
And yes Severian is totally dis-likeable, but then many protagonists are.   Who actually likes Rand Al Thor for example?  And poor Jolanta, never has a female character been treated so badly. 

I am not sure what it was about this book that made me react so strongly. I haven't read WoT to get the Rand Al'Thor reference, but I know Jorg from Prince of Thorns raped a couple of women in the beginning of the book and in general was probably not very likable but I enjoyed the book without wondering why i was reading about  someone i didnt like. I don't know if maybe its because there's not much humor in Wolfe's writing? Maybe it comes down to if theres some dark humor mixed in with jack-assery I am more tolerant?

And yes, Jolenta was treated horribly by pretty much everyone. I actually got angry when I read her chapter (23) in Claw. Severian deciding that he needed to put her in her place/adjust her attitude with sex whether she wanted it or not  made me give up hope of liking him.

Anyway,  there is much much more to this book than my complaints about the women. I dont want to sound like that is all I took from it.

And I must say ..... this book certainly provoked both thought and reaction from me.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2012, 07:26:19 PM by Arry »
“A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies. The man who never reads lives only once.”
-- George R.R. Martin

http://www.tenaciousreader.com

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Offline eclipse

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Re: For those that have finished!
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2013, 06:23:49 PM »
Finished a bit too Bizarre for me I don't think I will carry on with the series, I liked volume two more then volume  one thought the plot went faster

Poor Jolenta that  Dr Talos

I wanted to read more off Jonas after it was discovered he was a robot,  Severian didn't seem too surprised  by the discovery and why has Jonas got a thing for  Jolenta?

Also wanted to know more about the claw
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 06:26:32 PM by Eclipse »
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

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Offline DBASKLS

Re: For those that have finished!
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2013, 08:18:45 PM »
Well done! I didn't!
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Offline Arry

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Re: For those that have finished!
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2013, 11:07:51 PM »
Finished
That earns you some good karma. Not many people here that attempted finished.  ;D At least not for the book club read.

I haven't continued on. Every once in a while I think about it. Then I remember how long it took me to get through Shadow & Claw, and how much I dislike Severian, and quickly find something else to read. My guess is I'm not very likely to ever finish  :-\
“A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies. The man who never reads lives only once.”
-- George R.R. Martin

http://www.tenaciousreader.com

http://www.speculativeherald.com

Offline eclipse

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Re: For those that have finished!
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2013, 07:28:47 PM »
I thought I was talking to myself here  :)


The novel sometimes spend too long on certain scenes of the story where it should have been shorter like the play at the end of volume two and Thecla stay in prison in volume one if he had shorted them the story would have flowed better for me

Also too many questions and not enough answers for me I've read both volumes and still no answer to who the woman at the start of the story and why did the master give the  an expensive sword to Severian maybe there answered in the next volumes

I liked reading about Dr Talos and Jonas and the scene of consuming Thecla at the feast and the bat things which feed on heat and the mystery of the claw and the green man but not enough to carry on






According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

Jonathan Stroud:Ptolmy's Gate

Offline Nighteyes

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Re: For those that have finished!
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2013, 08:18:32 PM »
I read volume 3 and 4 and still unsure on many things!
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Offline Arry

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Re: For those that have finished!
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2013, 08:47:36 PM »
I thought I was talking to myself here  :)

It's been almost a year and half since I read it, I saw your other comments, but have a hard time remembering enough details to give anything close to a useful or coherent reply ;) But I do remember my impression at the end. I have heard its one that you pick up quite a bit more on rereads, but I doubt I will ever get around to that. Plenty of unread material out there I want to read first. And when I am done with that, there will be more new books. :)
“A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies. The man who never reads lives only once.”
-- George R.R. Martin

http://www.tenaciousreader.com

http://www.speculativeherald.com