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Author Topic: Week 4: Finished!  (Read 12548 times)

Offline Arry

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Week 4: Finished!
« on: January 24, 2014, 10:33:33 PM »
Heh … is it strange that at the end of this, my prodiminent thought is : "Wait! What? Rake is a dragon? Or can at least become a dragon? oh, and "Wait! What? Crokus just chucked the coin??"

Somehow, the end was not my favorite part of the book. I almost felt like so much happened so quick or something (especially at the Fete). I may come back later and add more comments/reactions, just having a hard time pulling my thoughts together at the moment.

And … Kruppe is The Eel. I wasn't surprised by this, he seemed to be everywhere. I think his interactions with Baruk especially seemed somewhat telling.

I did really enjoy it. And am really curious what will become of them. Especially the group (Crokus, Kalam and Fiddler) taking Apsalar back to Unta.

We're still left to figure out who the Circle Breaker is in relation to everything, definitely suspect he will play a larger role in the series. Really, I think this was a great opener to a much larger story and left just the right amount of questions/storylines open to feel good with the books end, but still feel the pull to learn more.

So, for those who powered through to the end, what are your thoughts? :)
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Offline eclipse

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Re: Week 4: Finished!
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2014, 09:30:25 AM »
And … Kruppe is The Eel. I wasn't surprised by this, he seemed to be everywhere. I think his interactions with Baruk especially seemed somewhat telling.


I was disappointed Kruppe was the Eel he seemed too obvious I wanted a mystery who the Eel was something to say **** me I never would have guessed that

now WhiskeyJack rebelling with Dujek against the Empire now that I  didn't guessed

Whiskeyjack manipulating Lorn was great now if you walk in this tunnel and Quick Ben saying damn it you nearly got her to walk on in me was great he reminds me of Croaker  the crafty bastard :)

Quick Ben using 7 warrens! Quick Ben is Awesome not only that he makes crazy puppets and makes deals with Shadowthrone and enters chaos warrens

I nearly got confused with all the different factions at the end but I Just managed it now we got the seer added as well

Rake as A Dragon was Great and the Crimson guards look like great characters like corporal blue

The wooden house tree House at the end is this the start of a new warren? House of .....? with Rallick Nom as the Head
« Last Edit: January 26, 2014, 02:07:02 PM by Eclipse »
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

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Offline xiagan

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Re: Week 4: Finished!
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2014, 10:37:29 AM »
Finished it yesterday morning. :)

I agree that Kruppe as the Eel wasn't as big a revelation as I would have liked, but we still don't know who Kruppe is. Seeing what he got for Circle breaker as a reward he is incredibly rich and well connected. But more interesting is his power. He managed to pull the Jaghut into from the real world into his dream, he can see parts of the future... That's incredibly powerful.

I really enjoyed the scene where Fiddler dealt cards and invented rules and you just saw how he unknowingly predicted the future with his deck of dragons.

And I liked the duel. It was refreshing to see Orr die after the first exchange and not have some artistically choreographed duel over ten pages.

I was a bit sad to see Lorn die. I would have liked her to develop more (and go with Tool), maybe break with the empress in the process. I guess it was necessary to give Paran the Otataral sword.

Do we know what exactly "Azath" is? And the house it built of itself - very interesting! Especially now that we know that the old Emperor and his right hand went into a house like this once. I'm curious about what will happen now that we have a guy immune to magic and a high mage, both assassins, enter this one. I don't like Vorcan much, but we haven't seen a lot of her yet, so that may change.

I, too, want to see more of the Crimson guard. When Serrat was stopped from killing the coin bearer all the time, I thought it would be Toc the Younger, popping in and out of warrens or being invisible or something like that.

It's interesting that the Rope was confused by Paran's kinship with the hounds too. I wonder if he's some kind of werehound (inside of warrens) now...

For those who read the whole series: Is there a better reading order than the published one?
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Offline eclipse

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Re: Week 4: Finished!
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2014, 01:13:54 PM »
I really enjoyed the scene where Fiddler dealt cards and invented rules and you just saw how he unknowingly predicted the future with his deck of dragons.


oh yes I forgot about this there so many things going on and I didn't expect lorn to die in the first book of the series

I forgot to ask why did Oponn get involved I can understand Shadowthrone and Rake

oh and what about sorry whose in her now the old witch from the beginning or someone else?

Also I think I would have given up on the novel if it was one of the first fantasy novels I had read luckily I've read quite a few now and really enjoyed it  :)

« Last Edit: January 26, 2014, 02:04:12 PM by Eclipse »
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

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Offline eclipse

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Re: Week 4: Finished!
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2014, 01:41:24 PM »
It's interesting that the Rope was confused by Paran's kinship with the hounds too. I wonder if he's some kind of werehound (inside of warrens) now...

I thought it was because Paran saved the two hounds souls from Rakes Sword did the hound's souls escape the sword and  fled into Paran soul? went a bit strange in Kruppe dream

"deep within him he heard a sound,repeating again and again, growling louder. A howl" page 456 of 494
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

Jonathan Stroud:Ptolmy's Gate

Offline Algon 33

Re: Week 4: Finished!
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2014, 07:33:15 PM »
It's interesting that the Rope was confused by Paran's kinship with the hounds too. I wonder if he's some kind of werehound (inside of warrens) now...

I thought it was because Paran saved the two hounds souls from Rakes Sword did the hound's souls escape the sword and  fled into Paran soul? went a bit strange in Kruppe dream

"deep within him he heard a sound,repeating again and again, growling louder. A howl" page 456 of 494
He drank of the Hound's blood.

Offline Idlewilder

Re: Week 4: Finished!
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2014, 07:48:51 PM »
I've literally only today managed to start my reread, but I can offer up a few thoughts on the book as a whole having read it before. Might come back with more thoughts when I finish again. Also, if anyone does want to continue on with the series I'd love to do a read-along. I got stuck with Deadhouse Gates the first time, and really want to get through it properly. Anyway...


Somehow, the end was not my favorite part of the book. I almost felt like so much happened so quick or something (especially at the Fete). I may come back later and add more comments/reactions, just having a hard time pulling my thoughts together at the moment.


I think it is probably a bit rushed, really just because books 2 and 3 have to pick up the pieces. Gardens of the Moon seems, if anything, more like an extended prologue to the entire thing. I remember enjoying the ending the first time I read it because I felt quite attached to the characters and Erikson puts them through some pretty weird shit. On a separate note, what do we think of his writing style? I personally really love it. Very humorous and cynical. It's a bit like Sanderson with a sense of humour and absolutely barrels of gore. A bit mad, but very worthwhile once you've finished it.

I did really enjoy it. And am really curious what will become of them. Especially the group (Crokus, Kalam and Fiddler) taking Apsalar back to Unta.

It's such an unusual series in that book 2 follows this storyline, but book 3 goes back and follows Whiskeyjack et al (from what I know). Generally though, fans do rave about Deadhouse Gates and Memories of Ice.

Quick Ben using 7 warrens! Quick Ben is Awesome not only that he makes crazy puppets and makes deals with Shadowthrone and enters chaos warrens

Quick Ben is ridiculously cool. Definitely the character I want to see more of (probably along with Anomander Rake) the most.

Quote
For those who read the whole series: Is there a better reading order than the published one?

Not having read past midway of book 2, I can only comment on what I've read elsewhere. Some say Book 5 (Midnight Tides) is a good starter, I think because it introduces a completely new batch of story threads and characters who don't immediately relate to those in the first 4 novels. Apparently it is a bit more conventional, making it an easier read than Gardens.

Also, some of Ian Cameron Esslemont's novels are apparently best read interwoven with Erikson's. I'm not 100% on what is the best order. The Wertzone has a recommended reading order: http://thewertzone.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/updated-malazan-reading-order-and-map.html

So is anyone planning to read on any time soon? (Having tried to pick up Deadhouse Gates after even just a year away was a nightmare the last time, just FYI. SO many threads to remember.)
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Offline xiagan

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Re: Week 4: Finished!
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2014, 03:22:53 PM »
It's interesting that the Rope was confused by Paran's kinship with the hounds too. I wonder if he's some kind of werehound (inside of warrens) now...

I thought it was because Paran saved the two hounds souls from Rakes Sword did the hound's souls escape the sword and  fled into Paran soul? went a bit strange in Kruppe dream

"deep within him he heard a sound,repeating again and again, growling louder. A howl" page 456 of 494
He drank of the Hound's blood.
He did?
There's something I just stumbled upon early in the book about Anomander Rake: "..who has tasted the blood of dragons..." And he can turn himself in a dragon. It's just a theory, but if Paran tasted the blood of the hounds, maybe he has similar powers now too?

Thanks for the link, Windy!
"Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis." (Laplace)

Offline Dessembrae

Re: Week 4: Finished!
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2014, 05:30:41 PM »


For those who read the whole series: Is there a better reading order than the published one?

 Perhaps for a reread, but for a first time read thay should be read in published order to avoid spoilers. Including Ian Esslemont's books. Follow the ordre on the Malazan forums, and you can't go wrong. Just don't look at the forum untill you have finnished the book, major spoilers http://forum.malazanempire.com/

Offline Evazorek

Re: Week 4: Finished!
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2014, 10:03:25 AM »
I really enjoyed the book and although the ending was difficult at times, trying to keep up with all the factions and events unfolding in parallel. I was also shocked when Rake turned into a dragon but it was cool so I didn't think much more of it. His fight in the streets of the city was a great section.

Now that the rebellion against the empress is up and running I am curious to see what events unfold in book 2. I am, however, going to wait a few weeks before diving into the second book. I have some other things I need to finished first but when I do start it, I said I would create a thread somewhere on here for people to carry on discussing the series as we read it. If you're interested look out for it, but I will probably post a link to it in here when it's created.

Great choice to kick off the 2014 book club! :)
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Offline Arry

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Re: Week 4: Finished!
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2014, 04:03:46 PM »
Now that the rebellion against the empress is up and running I am curious to see what events unfold in book 2. I am, however, going to wait a few weeks before diving into the second book. I have some other things I need to finished first but when I do start it, I said I would create a thread somewhere on here for people to carry on discussing the series as we read it. If you're interested look out for it, but I will probably post a link to it in here when it's created.

I think it would be great to carry on if it's possible. I am going to have to wait and see what my Feb. looks like, but there are others looking to do the same thing in the Read Along section, so hopefully it will work out for at least some to continue on, and I will try. :)

Quote
Great choice to kick off the 2014 book club! :)

 ;D I think so too! Definitely glad I finally started this one.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 04:06:34 PM by Arry »
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Offline simonster

Re: Week 4: Finished!
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2014, 08:42:07 PM »
It's been interesting following along with this discussion.  Congratulations to everyone who saw the book through to its end! ;D

I read GotM a couple of years back, and for me it alternated between being fantastically engaging and deeply frustrating.  I spent some time trying to figure out what it was about the book that didn't agree with me.  Here's my theory.  I'd be interested to know whether it rings true for anyone else. ;)

My problem with GotM is:  Nothing gets resolved.  Nothing at all.  Nothing.

Sure, lots of big, important, dramatic and really quite cool stuff happens.  But when it's over, all we get is a character thinking to themselves, "Hmm, that was mysterious.  I wonder what it could mean!"  Or maybe a character saying, "Aha!  But this means -" only to be interupted by another character saying, "Shh!  We can't talk about those things while the reader's listening!"

And similarly when characters die.  Are the loose ends of their story arc all tied up in a satisfying conclusion?  Nope.  They power-up and come straight back to life again!

Now don't get me wrong.  I think these sorts of devices do a great job of adding mystery and dragging the reader deeper into the story - as long as they're used sparingly.  But in GotM every single thread seemed to trail-off into unresolved mystery.  By the end I'd quite lost patience with it.  It didn't really feel like a story anymore.

Anyway, that's just my take on it.  And no, if it wasn't clear, I'm not planning on reading any of the other books in the series. ;)

Offline Arry

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Re: Week 4: Finished!
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2014, 10:33:31 PM »
It's been interesting following along with this discussion.  Congratulations to everyone who saw the book through to its end! ;D

I read GotM a couple of years back, and for me it alternated between being fantastically engaging and deeply frustrating.  I spent some time trying to figure out what it was about the book that didn't agree with me.  Here's my theory.  I'd be interested to know whether it rings true for anyone else. ;)

My problem with GotM is:  Nothing gets resolved.  Nothing at all.  Nothing.

Sure, lots of big, important, dramatic and really quite cool stuff happens.  But when it's over, all we get is a character thinking to themselves, "Hmm, that was mysterious.  I wonder what it could mean!"  Or maybe a character saying, "Aha!  But this means -" only to be interupted by another character saying, "Shh!  We can't talk about those things while the reader's listening!"

And similarly when characters die.  Are the loose ends of their story arc all tied up in a satisfying conclusion?  Nope.  They power-up and come straight back to life again!

Now don't get me wrong.  I think these sorts of devices do a great job of adding mystery and dragging the reader deeper into the story - as long as they're used sparingly.  But in GotM every single thread seemed to trail-off into unresolved mystery.  By the end I'd quite lost patience with it.  It didn't really feel like a story anymore.

Anyway, that's just my take on it.  And no, if it wasn't clear, I'm not planning on reading any of the other books in the series. ;)

I think maybe you made a fair point and I can understand why you and other readers may not like this book. I guess it comes down to what people look for in a book. As a start of a series, personally, I know I don't feel the need to have as much resolved as other readers. I know many people had similar complaints about The Blade Itself.

I think the point that Idlewilder made also fits here, that GotM is more like a novel length prologue. :)
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Offline simonster

Re: Week 4: Finished!
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2014, 08:27:13 PM »
I think the point that Idlewilder made also fits here, that GotM is more like a novel length prologue. :)

That's a fair description, although given the book's lack (in my mind) of resolutions, I'd be tempted to go further and call it a novel-length trailer. ;)

Offline Justan Henner

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Re: Week 4: Finished!
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2014, 10:36:48 PM »
A lot of the story arcs span several books, but as the story goes on, Erikson gets better at making each novel self contained. However, after reading the entire series, there are still some arcs that are unresolved. But he is still writing, so hopefully...