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Fantasy Faction Book Clubs => 2014 Book Club => Book Club Archives => Fantasy Faction Book Club => [JAN 2014] Gardens of the Moon => Topic started by: Arry on January 12, 2014, 07:59:05 PM

Title: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: Arry on January 12, 2014, 07:59:05 PM
Alright, quick recap of Book Two, I didn't have much time, so Book Three is shorter. Feel free to mention any events I missed, I am sure there are plenty. :)

Book Two - set in Darujhistan

We hear his about Kruppe's dream where he travels to an inn inhabited by beggars. They claim at different times to perhaps be his Virtues, Doubts, Gifts, Hunger, Humility

Quote
You are Humility but, as everyone knows, Humility has no place in Kruppe’s life, remember that. So here you will stay.”

Erikson, Steven (2004-06-01). Gardens of the Moon: Book One of The Malazan Book of the Fallen (p. 137). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.
Quote
Within the walls of his skull rang the dirge of prophecy, and it echoed through his bones.

Erikson, Steven (2004-06-01). Gardens of the Moon: Book One of The Malazan Book of the Fallen (p. 134). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.
There is also reference to the spinning coin and the youth it falls before.

Crokus breaks into a beautiful young lady's rooms to steal the plethora of gifts that have been given to her by suitors. He stole a bounty, but was also enamored of her while she slept. Topless. On his way back, he happens to seen by an assassin who was just attacked (by another assassin). The injured assassin mistakes him Crokus as his assailant and tries to shoot him. A coin falls seemingly out of nowhere and Crokus he picks it up (and narrowly misses the assassins bolt because of it). The injured assassin is finished off, and the two killers catch sight of Crokus. He is chased but manages to find refuge.


Crone is sent to Darujhistan by Rake to see out Baruk (a sorcerer/high alchemist). While Crone is meeting with Baruk, Orr stops by, she disguises herself as a dog to him, and she listens while Baruk and Orr speak. Baruk is secretly the head of all the mages. Orr wants Baruk to use his influence the citys mages's agree to a proclamation of neutrality. He also tells Baruk that Pale's mages were assassinated by a Claw. Baruk states this does not match what he knows and does not agree to help Orr. Rake show up, tells Baruk that the mages had fled Pale and that he wants their heads. Baruk agrees to give them to him because he thinks it will be less cruel than what Rake would do to them himself if he handed them over live.

Rollick Nom (an assassin) kilos Councilman Lim while he is with Lady Simtal. Lady Simtal is also having an affair with Orr, when she meets with him, she asks him to arrange for Coll to be assassinated. (Coll is the one who is always passed out drunk when Crokus meets with the group: Crokus, Coll, Kruppe, Murillio, Rallick)

Rallick warns Crokus to stay away from the Orr estate. Crokus also asks Kruppe for the items he stole earlier back. Rallick and Murillio decide later to try to steer Crokus away from thieving to give him a chance at a better life. Kruppe knows that Crokus is in possession of Oponn's coin, tells Baruk. They must protect him … until they don't. Or something like that.

Book Three

Quick Ben tries to bring Hairlock back from the warren. Hairlock seems to be growing more crazy from meddling with Chaos. He also says that a god must have interfered for Paran to have been able to wound the Hound.

Toc shows up in time to save Lorn from an attack of Barghast. The rest of her group was killed.

Paran tells Tattersail that a god intervened to save him.

Lorn and Toc get to Pale. She meets with Dujek and he tells her of the numerous attempts on his life. Tayschrenn has ordered a disturbing number of the nobility be purged. Dujek is obviously not happy with this.

At dinner, we find out that Lorn was in the Mouse Quarter (and lost everything) when it was cleansed. And that Tattersail was one of the mages involved.

While Paran and Lorn talk, he tells her that Sorry is possessed by The Rope, The Patron of Assassins, Shadowthrone's companion.

Tattersail travels, meets Bellurdan (still carrying his lovers remains still in a sack). She determines that Lorn is supposed to unleash the Jaghut, Bellurdan says he thinks the mission is to prevent that. To be safe, they fight and Tattersail burns them both to a crisp by opening her warren. Tattersail attempts a quick spell to save herself.


Quote
“Tell me, Tool, what dominates your thoughts?” The Imass shrugged before replying. “I think of futility, Adjunct.” “Do all Imass think about futility?” “No. Few think at all.” “Why is that?” The Imass leaned his head to one side and regarded her. “Because, Adjunct, it is futile.”

Erikson, Steven (2004-06-01). Gardens of the Moon: Book One of The Malazan Book of the Fallen (p. 248). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: Arry on January 12, 2014, 08:00:57 PM
A little bit of my reaction to both books:

Interesting how Crokus is in the middle of all these key players. It is a bit of a strange crew, you have to wonder how they all fell in together. And assassin (Rollick - who killed Councilman Lim), a mage (Kruppe - who is connected with Baruk), a dandy (who will likely end up another of Lady Simtal's lovers. Also involved with the Guild and Rallick), a young thief in the middle of it all.

Also curious what has truly happened to Tattersail, how she will reemerge.

I'm not really all that crazy about Crone. Can't say why exactly.

Also when Paran was talking to Toc about Tattersail's death

Quote
Only she didn’t die easily, she never took the easy path in anything.

Erikson, Steven (2004-06-01). Gardens of the Moon: Book One of The Malazan Book of the Fallen (p. 244). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

I couldn't help but think how quickly he can judge how Tattersail would always/normally act do they really know each other that well? have they had the time or chance? Kind of a petty reaction on my part, but couldn't help it.

There's a ton going on here. The Guild war/civil war, spies, assassins, plots, gods, etc. etc. It's hard to know where to even start with comments.

ETA: Kruppe speaking of himself in 3rd person is bit annoying. I keep thinking he's the Jar Jar Binks of GotM.

But, I am really enjoying the book. So far still intrigued instead of confused. :)
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: Evazorek on January 13, 2014, 07:32:12 AM
I think this is the part of the book where I started having to really focus on each section to work out who was involved and why. A lot of the second book seemed to be setting up characters and situations for later on when everyone arrives at Darujhistan.

The introduction of, "Tool," and his tales were what really interested me. Now what I didn't get here is how nonchalantly the introduction of a member of an ancient and powerful race was introduced here. In the description he is a huge lumbering sort of skeleton lord. He is full of wisdom and his power is clearly great, yet he just seems to show up and act as escort for Lorn. It all seemed a little out of the blue for me.

I really enjoyed their discussions on the road though.

Also the fight Tattersail has was really good and I was genuinely sad when she, "Died."
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: eclipse on January 13, 2014, 05:23:44 PM
Only read book two, I slowed down on purpose didn't want to finish the novel too fast 

The first time we meet Kruppe I had to re-read the chapter again I eventually got used to his speech now and his odd dreams

The Crokus episode where he flees from the assassins was exciting and the misunderstanding where another assassin thought the thief was an assassin was well done

Rake's sword a tiny bit scary isn't it  :)

Who do you think the Eel is?  Kruppe too obvious to be the Eel maybe Coil not seen much of him and being drunk would be a good disguise  could be anyone
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: ACSmyth on January 14, 2014, 03:02:20 PM
I'm into book 3. Still hanging in there. I need to decide at the end of this whether to buy the second part, since the audio book is sold in two parts. I hate it when they do that, but *shrugs*.
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: Arry on January 15, 2014, 04:37:48 PM
I'm into book 3. Still hanging in there. I need to decide at the end of this whether to buy the second part, since the audio book is sold in two parts. I hate it when they do that, but *shrugs*.

That would be really annoying! I've never seen that with my audiobooks. I guess it makes the books half price, maybe it could be useful if you decide you don't like the book or narrator.

The introduction of, "Tool," and his tales were what really interested me. Now what I didn't get here is how nonchalantly the introduction of a member of an ancient and powerful race was introduced here. In the description he is a huge lumbering sort of skeleton lord. He is full of wisdom and his power is clearly great, yet he just seems to show up and act as escort for Lorn. It all seemed a little out of the blue for me.
Ooops, think I forgot much of Tool when I was trying to write my recap. I actually liked the introduction. It was a bit strange and mysterious, but I'd rather have that than some big  infodump on who and what he is.

Who do you think the Eel is?  Kruppe too obvious to be the Eel maybe Coil not seen much of him and being drunk would be a good disguise  could be anyone

Yeah, I don't reallly think it's Coll, but that certainly would be an interesting turn of events. He could probably hear all sorts of things while people assume he is passed out drunk.

I've actually just assumed the Eel is yet another character yet to be introduced, but having it be an existing character could certainly be the case. I'll have to think on that more as I read :)
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: Dessembrae on January 15, 2014, 07:05:51 PM

 That's the attitude it takes to enjoy Malazan. Throughout the story you'll learn all about Onos T'oolan and the T'lan Imass, and loads of other races too.
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: Justan Henner on January 15, 2014, 07:35:07 PM


The introduction of, "Tool," and his tales were what really interested me. Now what I didn't get here is how nonchalantly the introduction of a member of an ancient and powerful race was introduced here. In the description he is a huge lumbering sort of skeleton lord. He is full of wisdom and his power is clearly great, yet he just seems to show up and act as escort for Lorn. It all seemed a little out of the blue for me.
Ooops, think I forgot much of Tool when I was trying to write my recap. I actually liked the introduction. It was a bit strange and mysterious, but I'd rather have that than some big  infodump on who and what he is.


I agree. I'd much rather read a character's backstory and description in pieces than one long info dump. It makes it better to see it in parts because that way you see different parts from different perspectives. Some factions fear the T'lan Imass, others respect them, others revere them, and it all depends on the character. A big info dump cheapens that, because it gives authority to the PoV which provides the info, and makes you more likely to believe their perspective than that of someone else down the line.
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: eclipse on January 15, 2014, 09:47:57 PM
Finished Book 3

Ok Has Tattersail body swapped with Nightchill?

I'm really like reading about Toc the younger and Hairlock

Dujek burning the books so Tayschrenn didnt get the name of all the Pale nobles to execute and Dujek stopping Lorn from executing Tattersail I enjoyed those scenes

I'm getting confused with all the different names for the warrens but i do enjoy reading about them I find them very intriguing
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: Arry on January 16, 2014, 03:22:44 PM
Finished Book 3

Ok Has Tattersail body swapped with Nightchill?
Trying to remember exactly where Book 3 stopped. Pretty sure at this point, you don't know exactly what happened, but that she made an attempt to save herself through some use of magic and Nightchill's remains.

Quote
I'm really like reading about Toc the younger and Hairlock
Honestly, I'm not sure why more books don't feature possessed puppets/marionettes.

Quote
Dujek burning the books so Tayschrenn didnt get the name of all the Pale nobles to execute and Dujek stopping Lorn from executing Tattersail I enjoyed those scenes
Yes! I especially liked Dujek burning the books.

Quote
I'm getting confused with all the different names for the warrens but i do enjoy reading about them I find them very intriguing
I figure it will all start to come together and be easier to keep straight.It's harder to remember names when we have little context to associate with them. As we learn more, should become easier. I think. ;)
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: ACSmyth on January 16, 2014, 04:11:19 PM
I think I'm out.

I'm about 40 minutes from the end of the part I've bought (which was about 13 hours). This close to the end I'd usually plough on through, but I'm finding even when I'm cleaning or cooking, I'm not picking up my mp3 player. Normally it's pretty automatic, but it's become a bit of a chore. I've followed the story OK, but I'm not really interested in any of the characters.

I've read The Lions of Al-Rassan quite recently, so I'll pass on that, but I'll keep an eye out for what's chosen for March.
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: Dessembrae on January 16, 2014, 06:42:53 PM
I think I'm out.

I'm about 40 minutes from the end of the part I've bought (which was about 13 hours). This close to the end I'd usually plough on through, but I'm finding even when I'm cleaning or cooking, I'm not picking up my mp3 player. Normally it's pretty automatic, but it's become a bit of a chore. I've followed the story OK, but I'm not really interested in any of the characters.

I've read The Lions of Al-Rassan quite recently, so I'll pass on that, but I'll keep an eye out for what's chosen for March.

 I felt the same way about GoTM. I didn't care what happened to any of the characters. Erikson's characterization improves in a big way over the next couple of books. Book 3 Memories of ice is an all time favorite, it's worth sticking it out IMO.
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: ACSmyth on January 16, 2014, 07:15:55 PM
I felt the same way about GoTM. I didn't care what happened to any of the characters. Erikson's characterization improves in a big way over the next couple of books. Book 3 Memories of ice is an all time favorite, it's worth sticking it out IMO.

This is what I don't get. As writers, we're told we've got to have hooked the reader in the first chapter. But I've got to wait till book 3? What happened there?

Maybe I'll go back sometime, but I've got a ton of other stuff I'd rather read right now. My TBR pile is close to being declared unsafe.
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: eclipse on January 18, 2014, 11:24:16 AM
I seem to have overshot and read book 4 .... I've really got into the story need to slow down
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: simonster on January 19, 2014, 10:39:32 AM
This is what I don't get. As writers, we're told we've got to have hooked the reader in the first chapter. But I've got to wait till book 3? What happened there?

This puzzles me too.  I'm not a writer, but it felt to me like GotM was still at least one round of revisions away from being ready to meet its audience.  Is there a story behind how the book came to be published?

(Context:  I read the book a few years ago; I'm not reading along with the Book Club.  Overall I was sort of impressed by it - but I also felt there was a lot wrong with it.  It's unlikely I'll ever read the other books in the series.)
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: Idlewilder on January 19, 2014, 11:40:20 AM
This is what I don't get. As writers, we're told we've got to have hooked the reader in the first chapter. But I've got to wait till book 3? What happened there?

This puzzles me too.  I'm not a writer, but it felt to me like GotM was still at least one round of revisions away from being ready to meet its audience.  Is there a story behind how the book came to be published?

(Context:  I read the book a few years ago; I'm not reading along with the Book Club.  Overall I was sort of impressed by it - but I also felt there was a lot wrong with it.  It's unlikely I'll ever read the other books in the series.)

There is actually quite a lengthy story on how it came to be published, but it's not easy to find online. If you go on Amazon and look inside the book you can read it there.
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: simonster on January 19, 2014, 03:10:28 PM
There is actually quite a lengthy story on how it came to be published, but it's not easy to find online. If you go on Amazon and look inside the book you can read it there.

Ah, thanks!  There wasn't a preface in the edition I read.

That does go some way to explaining how the author sees the book.  Short version: too bad if you don't like the book, it has to be the way it is because of its ambitions.  (Not sure I buy that personally, and it sounds like a lot of potential publishers felt the same way.)
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: DBASKLS on January 21, 2014, 06:53:14 PM
So I finally got to the end of book three. It’s taken me ages. Although the writing is fine I’m finding it a real slog. For me there is too much flitting between characters – I can’t keep up with them all. As I have now reached this point I’m going to take a break. I hope to come back to it fairly soon but I can’t bring myself to read anymore just now. I need to read something lighter!
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: eclipse on January 21, 2014, 09:59:23 PM
I’m finding it a real slog. For me there is too much flitting between characters

I quite like the flitting between characters I seem to like books that do this like  the Red Knight ,Sorry you finding it a Slog
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: Geekory on January 22, 2014, 01:31:15 PM
It wasn't till book 3 that I really started to get into the story and confident that I understand 80% of what's going on. Now I can't put it down.

This is what I don't get. As writers, we're told we've got to have hooked the reader in the first chapter. But I've got to wait till book 3? What happened there?

I completely agree. I had a writing group meetup a few days ago and we shared what we were currently reading. I could not recommend anyone this book cause I know they would drop it after the first few chapters.
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: Arry on January 22, 2014, 02:17:11 PM
I’m finding it a real slog. For me there is too much flitting between characters

I quite like the flitting between characters I seem to like books that do this like  the Red Knight ,Sorry you finding it a Slog

Ha! Yes, this book is a breeze compared to The Red Knight (which I also really enjoyed :) )

I quite often like different characters/story lines that don't immediately seem connected. You know they will be, part of the fun is discovering how/why/when they are or will be connected. But I know not everyone likes it.
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: Arry on January 22, 2014, 02:27:43 PM
This is what I don't get. As writers, we're told we've got to have hooked the reader in the first chapter. But I've got to wait till book 3? What happened there?

I completely agree. I had a writing group meetup a few days ago and we shared what we were currently reading. I could not recommend anyone this book cause I know they would drop it after the first few chapters.

I think it just really helps to point out that different readers look for different things in their books. I actually quite enjoyed this one from the beginning, so there is something there for people, it just doesn't work for everyone. I mean, from the very get go, we have war, assassins, thieves, magic, betrayal .... and a very epic scale. For me, not knowing how they are all connected makes it intriguing and mysterious, a puzzle to put together. But for others, it comes across as disjoint, random and frustrating. I don't think either is right or wrong, it just shows that different readers latch onto different things and vary in their expectations.
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: xiagan on January 22, 2014, 09:10:19 PM
Wow, it really got rolling. Especially in book three a lot happens and there are so many things to speculate about, I can't remember all of them. :)

I can see why people drop out and I'm slower with this than I usually am, but I find it quite rewarding, so I continue. :) Eriksson's extensive world building allows what I loved most about WoT: speculating and theory building.
I guess reading this book a second time will make you notice so much you oversaw (or couldn't comprehend) the first time...

Oh, and I liked the Darujhistan part a lot. It wasn't as dark as the rest and somehow easier (means faster) too read. Great characters here. Well, most of Eriksson's are.

And I find it refreshing how active and meddling the gods are. I just have the feeling that believing in them/worshiping them won't help you at all...

Interesting how Crokus is in the middle of all these key players.
And Paran will join him. They're both connected to the coin.

Quote
Also curious what has truly happened to Tattersail, how she will reemerge.
Exactly, all this talking about Elderling sorcery and the first warren... Really curious! And if she will be Tattersail, or a mixture of the three mages or something completely else...

Quote
Also when Paran was talking to Toc about Tattersail's death
Quote
Only she didn’t die easily, she never took the easy path in anything.
I couldn't help but think how quickly he can judge how Tattersail would always/normally act do they really know each other that well? have they had the time or chance?
Yep, wondered that myself. And I found the scene where he bedded Tattersail a bit strange and coming out of nowhere.

The introduction of, "Tool," and his tales were what really interested me. Now what I didn't get here is how nonchalantly the introduction of a member of an ancient and powerful race was introduced here. In the description he is a huge lumbering sort of skeleton lord. He is full of wisdom and his power is clearly great, yet he just seems to show up and act as escort for Lorn. It all seemed a little out of the blue for me.
Yes, he's great. I like how he has a sense of humor and doesn't seem to take himself seriously. That's a trait we see much to seldom in 300,000 year old skeleton lords/mages (something like a Lich, but not evil?). ;)

Who do you think the Eel is?  Kruppe too obvious to be the Eel maybe Coil not seen much of him and being drunk would be a good disguise  could be anyone

I think Coil is Lady Simtal's cast off husband. No idea who the Eel is or if we have met him/her already...


Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: Idlewilder on February 05, 2014, 09:58:32 AM
I guess reading this book a second time will make you notice so much you oversaw (or couldn't comprehend) the first time...

It definitely does. All the stuff about Warrens and the Elder Races in particular is just clicking far more with me this time through. Likewise with all the poems, snippets and prophecies.
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: Jeni on March 03, 2014, 09:51:27 PM
:D :D :D

Don't really have anything extra to add, my thoughts seem to echo everyone else's at this point.... the 'what happened to Tattersail' mystery is intriguing though - the magic used was from all three of the mage's warrens plus the original Elder warren and a bunch of others too and Tool said 'something has .. been born..a new presence' - so just how powerful is whatever this is and will it continue Tattersails mission, or is it too new to be able to function effectively and will it be something that will play a part much later on?
Fluffin loving this.  ;D
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: Timstar on July 22, 2014, 04:20:55 PM
By this point I was understanding the events but not the meaning or context, I'm guessing that will continue for a while?
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: Arry on July 22, 2014, 05:10:15 PM
By this point I was understanding the events but not the meaning or context, I'm guessing that will continue for a while?
Yep. I think that is pretty much the expected experience for Malazan. It does come together more by the end of the book, and to an even greater scale in subsequent books from my understanding (I bought the second as soon as we finished this read, but have not yet managed to get to it. One of these days I WILL read on!)
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: xiagan on July 22, 2014, 07:49:46 PM
By this point I was understanding the events but not the meaning or context, I'm guessing that will continue for a while?
Yep. I think that is pretty much the expected experience for Malazan. It does come together more by the end of the book, and to an even greater scale in subsequent books from my understanding (I bought the second as soon as we finished this read, but have not yet managed to get to it. One of these days I WILL read on!)
Yep, Arry is totally right. And the series is totally worth the confusion you get sometimes in the early books. :)
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: Timstar on July 23, 2014, 09:28:20 AM
Glad to hear it, I will persevere :)
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: Idlewilder on July 23, 2014, 09:43:18 AM
By this point I was understanding the events but not the meaning or context, I'm guessing that will continue for a while?

Agreed with Xiagan and Arry. It's always pretty murky (Gardens of the Moon is still probably the most difficult as you need to get into that mindset I think) but most importantly he makes it worth your while, 'cos when the fog finally clears and you get some answers it's so worth it.  :)
Title: Re: Week 2: Book Two and Book 3
Post by: ScarletBea on December 22, 2017, 09:06:10 AM
Without reading the others' comments, here are mine (I'm not good commenting halfway through things, though).

I'm really enjoying the book, getting more into it, although at times I just go with the flow, getting a bit confused who is who and what they did :-[
Still not 100% sure who are the 'goodies' and the 'badies', although maybe there are none and we are supposed to understand all sides of the groups.

I was very upset with what happened to Tattersail, one of my favourite characters (but in the meantime I started Book 4 and feel a bit more reassured, although I had to stop reading halfway through the 'transformation', so I'll have to see what happens!)


Edit: after reading the comments I'm glad I'm not alone in the confusion, and I'm glad it looks like it will only get better :D